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HALP.

Having gone ahead and updated the taken characters list for the moment, I had a few things that I wanted to iron out, mainly concerning comics stuff.

We have a bunch of Batman groups, including "Batman: DC Comics," but then there's also a general "DC Comics" group, and I was wondering if you guys like it the way it is or if you'd rather I tossed the Batman comics people into the general comics group? That's how the Marvel section works (although Spidey's off on his own, HMM)... ANYWAY, I'm just wondering if you guys have any preferences for how this is organized since I break my brain trying to decide what's the best way to do it each time.

On that note, I get the feeling that the Japanese name order is a real mess on that list, but I know that people have their different preferences when it comes to that, so I was wondering -- should I think about standardizing it (last, first vs. first, last) or maybe having a standard for each separate canon depending on what the majority preference among the players from each canon is? OR AM I OVERTHINKING THIS? :| Anyway, thoughts for those that have an opinion about this, if you could, please. ♥

Also, I'd like to offer my apologies for those of you who are waiting on app responses still. We just have a few more, some of which are waiting on second opinions -- but yeah. DX SOON, HOPEFULLY.

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

Re: name order, I honestly think it would be easier if we had a standard for the entire list, just because...well...then I'd be less confused. I confuse easily. :(

But yeah. Maybe make everyone on the list be Firstname Lastname just for simplicity's sake? Or at least make the Japanese names Lastname, Firstname so we know...

I vote firstname lastname; it would be standardized, especially considering the Western style of the game. Not that I have a Japanese character who goes by a Japanese name, but that's my tuppence.

Good luck with the rest of the apps! ♥ ~~AND WOOOOO ALKAID'S AT THE TOP OF THE LIST AND WILL BE FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE AWWW YEEEEAHHHH~~

SHUT UP Spidey's a special snowflake and deserves his own listing. :|

Tim and I were actually talking about how Tim and Alfred should go with all the "DC: Comics" group, for less confusion. I would say that Nightwing should go under that same general heading, while Terry gets to be a special snowflake, like Spidey.

As long as that's okay with everyone else.

Looking at it now, it's not too bad, but is there a way that all the DC stuff could go under the same heading? Like, the Flash is off in his own category, too. And specifics could be in parenthesis following the user name, like for Spidey?

Just throwing some ideas out. XD It might be easier if they where all under the same heading, but it's really up to you guys.

Well, Wally's animated verse, so sticking him in under a 'DC comics' heading would be a little confusing, especially since there is a comics series called Justice League, so you'd have to specify medium as well...

And then if you're doing that for him, then you'd also need to include the other animated DC characters, like Harley, Brainy, Terry... Then there's any movie versions, like Harvey...

And idk, I think it starts to make things unnecessarily complicated to lump all the mediums under a 'DC' heading, same as if you tried it with all the Marvel series, since they have Marvel Comics, Spiderman Comics, X-Men Evolution, Iron Man... Dx

[comics; making things more complicated since ever]

Edited 2009-08-20 11:05 (UTC)

I think a standard for each canon would make sense. If you must standardise the whole list, I vote Firstname Lastname (again, my character doesn't have a normal name, so I'm not sure why I'm voting).

Probably best to have a universal standard cuz... yeah. I've got mostly Japanese names and I still get confused about a character's first and last, especially if I'm not familiar with the canon. I don't really have a preference for which you guys choose, so long as it keeps to one for all names? If that makes sense.

I'm agreeing with Kes on this one. I don't think lumping all of the mediums under one single DC heading would be the way to go.

However, if you want, it might be possible to get away with creating one DC Comics heading and one DCAU (animated universe) heading, since as far as I know for the animated universe, BtAS, Batman Beyond, and Justice League/JLU are all considered part of the same general universe. Static Shock, The Zeta Project, and Superman: the Animated Series would also fall under DCAU (I can hope, damn it), along with several others.

Uh, anyway. I'm good with whatever, ultimately?

And whatever you like as far as standards go. Probably with whatever you decide though, it'd just be a good idea to make note of it at the top of the list?

Oh, and also? Re: Saiyuki: Taisho and Gensui are not last names--they're military ranks. Just for the record. ;)

... Contrary to the popular consensus so far, I'd actually prefer a universal standard of "Last name, first name". :C

Some kind of of standard order on the names in the list would be a big help, especially the Japanese ones.

A standardized name order would be wonderful. No preference on which comes first, though.

Agreeing that standardization with the Japanese names would be a good idea. I aesthetically prefer lastname, firstname in most cases, but I think it might be better to have it firstname, lastname so that it matches the rest of the list. All the individual players can write the names however they want when they play, but it would be more organized to have the same standard for the entire list.

I agree with Sonya above, not that any of this would affect my characters at all. But there are like... weird examples where one character has a Japanese name and a bunch of other characters from the same show have non-Japanese names, and it would probably make it easier to just straight-up standardize Firstname Lastname to avoid confusion even within the same series.

I vote standard first, last name order for the entire list. It's simple and we're free to throw whatever name order we prefer into our journals/posts/whatever anyway. I wouldn't care if it was the other way around either (last, first) but some people don't have a last name so it gets kinda weird.

To be blunt I think putting Japanese names in western order is retarded. I guess since I don't play any characters who go by their real names anymore I shouldn't care, but if I did and his/her name was switched around on the listings, I'd probably whine about it. :|

Yeaaaah... I'd say if there was to be a standardized method, it should be 'last name, first name' just because to me, it seems like there are so many Japanese characters afoot. :O. AND. Since it's a 'patient listing', it makes more sense to have the list organized by last names first, like how you might find them alphabetized in a real hospital. IDK DUMB SENSE OF CONSISTENCY.

Well, there lots of people saying Given-name Surname, but since there are a few saying they'd really rather not, I vote that the player decides, but have an asterisk to indicate when Japanese name order is used.

~~Don'tBeAnAsterisk.com I kid!~~

Edited 2009-08-20 20:46 (UTC)

My personal preference is "Firstname Lastname" due to my general feelings on playing writing games in an English-language environment, but I'm not opposed to "Lastname, Firstname" since it is common to organize lists of names by surnames. So long as it is made certain that there is a comma between the two names to indicate that this is the case, I'm good with that.

Edited 2009-08-20 16:36 (UTC)

Yes, this. Even in my line of work, which mostly deals with Western names (or at least non-Japanese names), the surname always goes first, which makes organization that much simpler.

I don't have much of a stake in this because I only play the U.S. version of my character, BUT. Were he to go by his Japanese name (Karuma Gou), I would definitely want the family name to go first. It just sounds better and makes more sense overall.

Yes, this.

I play both a Japanese character and one with a Western name and to me, it should be last name, first name because that's how records are kept in a hospital anyway. That way, we avoid conflicts and special markers for Japanese name.

fhdus;agf goddammit haseo objects to being topped in this manner!

...also lol coincidental demon palace emperor order

I'm gonna be a horrible and say the whole name reversal thing confuses the HELL out of me. I've always just gone with whatever the translation does. ICly, People can do whatever they want in their posts, since I can tell which is their primary name from the prose. And I can always assume language laws are at play so characters are hearing the name in whatever order they would normally interpret names, so they know which is first and last.

I understand everyone's points, but the way I'm reading responses so far, it seems more like an IC nitpick to me. For the sake of OOC organization as opposed to IC organization, I'm in favor of "First Name, Last Name." I don't see why it's that big of a problem for them to be in western since people are only looking at those lists really quick for the sake of reference.

Oh. Pfft. I should probably also say something about the DC listings. I personally think the DC Comics should be lumped together since there are just SO MANY versions and comics. It's just easier that way. I also like individual series being listed for the animated verses, but I'm not going to be that nitpicky over something like organization lists. I don't have a preference as to whether you lump together all the DC animated series together or not. Definitely DC Comics and DC animated should be separate.

Quietly slipping in my two cents and agreeing that all of the above take place in the same universe, thus would probably all be thrown in together if the mods decide to just make one big DCAU section. ~~I never watched The Zeta Project, but I'll take Tad's word on this.~~

HOWEVER, I want to point out that should anyone ever app from The Batman, I don't think that's the same universe at all. That's like an AU Redo or something and thus should be listed separately if it should ever happen. *nitpicking :|*

I kind of prefer firstname lastname, since long names and names with prefixes or suffixes or aliases look kind of jumbled up in lastname firstname.

Though I wouldn't mind if all Western-style names were first-last and all Eastern-style names were last-first.

re: Japanese name order

I really had no preference until I started thinking about a situation that doesn't exist now, but could if players decided to app certain characters. Chinese name order is family-name given-name, and would look awfully strange if the entire list has to follow Western convention. (Liu Bei turns into Bei Liu? Zhuge Liang turned into Liang Zhuge? Lu Bu turns into Bu Lu?) So if we decide to have Western conventions for the entire list, you could run into that ... interesting hypothetical situation.

So I'd have to say I prefer Western names with the firstname lastname style and Eastern names with the lastname firstname style.

Or a standardized "lastname, firstname" for the entire list.

FTR, I prefer that ALL names, Eastern or Western, do the opposite. I'd break out into a rash if I saw a medical filing cabinet that sorted everything by first name. XD; It's just easier for me to find someone's name if their surname is listed first.

I admit, I'd be freaking pissed if someone listed them firstname, lastname as far as medical records or library authors or things like that go. I know one retarded bookstore did that around here and it ticked me off so bad XD But as far as for the sake of unofficial reference in an RP, I'd prefer it that way. ...plus I think a lot of names would look pretty retarded reversed. Case and point: Quinn, Harley. Fox, Gray. Malkuth, Peony Upala IX. Wonka, Willy.

It's more a point of I'm used to hearing certain names in a certain order and so if I'm looking for the name, I'm looking for the name first and then last. Eastern names, admittedly LOOK better reversed, but when I don't know the canon I personally don't know wtf the look for XDDDD And don't think I'm arguing. I'm just saying.

Personally, I'd find it helpful either way -- because it isn't always clear from narration either since if I don't know the canon, I don't know whether the narration is going with first or last -- it's usually first, but you sometimes have characters who are formal enough even in narration to think of themselves by last name. (Or players who prefer to do the narration that way.)

Then again, I've got one that generally goes by initials and one that only has one name, so I really don't have a horse in this race.

ETA: What about "Surname, Given" for Westerners and "Surname Given" (no comma) for Eastern names? Thus they're all in the same order, but flagged? Because if you flip the Western names without commas, you do start to get some that aren't obvious.

Edited 2009-08-20 18:55 (UTC)

ACTUALLY I DISAGREE WITH MYSELF NOW

BECAUSE IT WOULD BECOME "LUFFY D. MONKEY" IF IT WAS STANDARDIZED

AND "ZORO RORONOA" and i just can't handle that

LASTNAME, FIRSTNAME. ALL THE WAY.

FACE IT HASEO ALKAID WILL ALWAYS TOP YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE AT LANDEL'S, SHE IS JUST 1000% MAN

actually, yes, lol. THOUGH if we get atoli back then it'll all be screwed. silabus wouldn't screw it up though u_u

...but then again, things like "Geeste, Leon D. S" bother me too

Voting for standards for each canon. u_u

If they did decide to go with the "everyone lastname, firstname" decision, I would hope that's what they would do. Cause, yeah, a lot of names would get really confusing (like Feldt Grace, lol).

I'm actually starting to think the suggestion of all Eastern names reversed and all western names not is probably the better solution. Because as I pointed out in a post above, some names are simply meant to be said in the firstname lastname order, and doing otherwise is kind of... bwaah? But as someone pointed out below, Chinese names and certain others look absolutely ridiculous when NOT reversed.

Edited 2009-08-20 19:04 (UTC)

BUT since it's a hospital then "last, first" might be better

lol talking to myself :|b As long as it doesn't become Luffy D. Monkey I'm okay with whatever~

I agree with Tad. On the DC stuff. XD

Wouldn't it be Luffy Monkey D?

:P

EITHER WAY IT WOULD BE HORRIBLE

This is pretty much why I don't feel everything needs to be standardized, least of all in medical record style. This isn't a medical record, and we don't have problems distinguishing all the John's and Kate's from each-other (we have more characters in the same canon with the same surname than the same given name).

Doing it author-style just seems unnecessary, and would make names that people are used to seeing together look strange (Jason Todd, Harley Quinn, Kitty Pryde... some other, non-comic examples, I'm sure). And then some other names would look out of place, like Depth Charge (because there is no way he is Charge, Depth). I do think that simply marking the names with parenthesis or asterisks would be a lot simpler and let everyone give whatever name they want.

It is confusing if people listed next to each-other disagree, but I still don't think knowing the order is necessary for knowing how to address anyone in-game, since you can usually tell from their own posts, even if it's not clear when they introduce themselves. And... some people don't use their given name anyway, like vonKarma and Wesker.

Also Legion of Super Heroes is a different 'verse as well. T___T

HAY I just said "in this manner" geez c'mon! *renames haseo "aahaseo"* HE NEEDS TO BE FIRST THIS IS FACT dhsauof;hso >|

and atoli's new name can be "sadoli." problem solved. ...though if ovan gets apped in idek man.

I vote for standards in each canon.

Though if it really must be a standard through the whole list, I vote for first name/last name. Sorting it alphabetically wouldn't make sense otherwise for characters that don't have last names (especially if this is all in one canon). Plus, some last names simply aren't (well) known. I also personally look at first names when looking at a character list. If I'd look for FFVII's Cloud Strife, I'd be more inclined to look at the top of the list (C), than the bottom (S). Plus, there are those connection words such as 'von', 'den', etc. Or people with multiply last names in rare cases? How would you sort those? :O

And because really, 'Mikk Tyki' just looks completely retarded and awful. :/ I could live with 'Tenzen Yakushiji' and 'Kuukaku Shiba' better than with that horrible 'Mikk Tyki'. D: I KNOW IT'S BIASED, but I doubt it's the only name that's going to look ridiculous when reversed. ~~I think I'm gonna whine if I ever find that on a Taken Characters list :X~~ Though it could technically be the same for Japanese characters the other way around.

Or all Western names could be firstname/lastname and all Japanese names lastname/firstname? Or sort it by canon? I think that would satisfy the most people?

And yes, I do hope medical records are sorted by their last name. But since we're talking about a taken characters list and not a medical record here, I honestly don't consider this a valid argument.

Edited 2009-08-20 21:29 (UTC)

I'm...going with the Western names [first-last] and Eastern names [last-first] only because I play both and....that's kind of how they introduce themselves. I wouldn't mind the "last, first" for Western names, but it bugs the hell out of me for Eastern names and the reason is cultural. I'll admit it. :(

Use of a first name in Japanese culture indicates closeness or a certain level of friendship/intimacy that isn't a problem in Western culture. For some people it doesn't matter, but for people like, say, Okita (hur, he's always my example), he'd get seriously offended if someone he didn't know called him Souji.

So...tl;dr: Western order for Western names, Eastern order for Eastern?

I think most people can figure out which it which by, you know, the name. John Smith vs Kageyama Shun and all.

I agree COMPLETELY with this. Let the name order follow the culture of the name itself.

The Zeta Project is actually a spin off of Batman Beyond! I never watched The Zeta Project either, but there were 3 crossover episodes (two in Batman Beyond, one in the Zeta Project).

But yeah, I know there's a lot of animated DC comics that AREN'T considered DCAU too. So it could get tricky there.

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

HALP.

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