IMPORTANT: Poll regarding the eligibility of ORIGINAL CHARACTERS

[hughes]

It seems that we have widely varied opinions on the subject of whether or not original characters should be allowed at Landamned. Originally, when we moved over from Redux, OCs were allowed, but then Court and I decided to disallow them... at which point people argued they should be allowed... so we allowed them, with some stiuplations.... and now that they're allowed again, other people are saying they SHOULDN'T be allowed, while some are continuing to argue that they should! XDDD;;;;

Basically, we've realized that this one of those many moments when the only way we can make a fair decision is if we use a poll. (Keep in mind that we're NOT giving the option of making our rules for allowing OCs less strict, as Court and I simply aren't comfortable with that prospect.)

I'd also like to apologize in advance to anyone who already sent an OC character app in or who have already started on one in case the comm decides against it. D:

For your reference, these are our current OC standards:

Sorry, but we only allow players who have had a character at Landel's for four months or more to app an original character. Our rationale for this is that there isn't any sort of characterization standard or background that we can be sure will be held true to in either an application or in actual RP, which makes it very hard for us to judge OC applications, especially if we aren't familiar with a player's writing and characterization ability. In order to combat this difficulty while also making OC characters a possible addition to the Landamned roster, we ask for both the aforementioned experience and for a very fleshed-out application. Keep in mind, however, that even if you satisfy both of those requirements, we mods will be very tough on your character to make sure they don't end up being a Mary Sue or a Gary Stu with a stereotypical, wishy-washy background. Basically: Make sure your original character is unique and intriguing, as the mods reserve the right to reject them on the basis that they are uninteresting or indulgent.


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NOTE: Due to some confusion, I'd like to make clear that, for all intensive purposes, the results of this poll are only in regards to COMPLETELY ORIGINAL CHARACTERS NOT FROM ANY PRE-EXISTING FANDOM. Fandom OCs are a whole different issue altogether. XD; If the "No" and "Yes" answers are really close in the end, I'll be putting up a new poll that has separate questions about totally original OCs and fandom OCs, but let's address just the completely original ones for now. XD; Sorry for the confusion!

[Poll #923588]

However, the original character poll PALES in comparison to the COMPLETE AND UTTER PROFUNDITY POSED BY MY NEXT INQUIRY.

[Poll #923589]

Comments

[dead-draven.livejournal.com]

I'm of the opinion that original characters should be allowed under standards. I think the current standards are fair, but if they were made stricter, I wouldn't complain.

What's important here is to consider what we have as the current standards. The person has to have been at Landels for four months. That means that one can assume they know the community, a good amount of the people in it, and the types of characters likely to do well in a setting that is so chock full of horror and people from varied fandoms. If they appear to have a good hold of the fandom that they've created, I think that they deserve to share them with other people.

Yeah, accuse me of being biased because I'm the one who apped the original character this shift. XD All I'm saying is that I think people are being overly paranoid about something that, considering the guidelines, is not an issue. After four months of play in the game and a mod-approved and carefully criticized application, I think that anyone who applies with an original character has proven themselves capable of handling what is essentially a more difficult situation to prove oneself in than applying with a fandom character. If I don't get in with my OC, I won't begrudge--I'll just understand and move on. I've been in roleplays where original characters were permitted to mix with fandom characters. No one's head exploded. No drastically horrifying situations resulted. Things went on as usual, and people treated the characters just like any other.

This is not a bad thing, and again, considering the guidelines, I think allowing original characters is completely fair. To ban them would pull a huge and varied amount of possibilities for interactions, relationships, and quality roleplaying with characters outside of one's common knowledge from Landels.

I think that this could be a seriously successful initiative to allow at Landels. Plus, I will bring to everyone's attention that only ONE person, that being me, has EVER EVEN TRIED to apply with an OC. XD If scores of OCs running around is what you're worried about, read that stat again.

There's my two cents. It's just my opinion--feel free to disagree.

[walking-complex.livejournal.com]

I do want to know what some of the arguments for having OCs available are. I'm not trying to be a prick, but I honestly can't think of any, other than "because I want to" and I feel like a loser because I can't see both sides. XD

Granted, maybe I just value peer review way too much.

[dead-draven.livejournal.com]

*Points up*

[bondofflame.livejournal.com]

......... OMG. ERIN >/ *SHAKEFIST*

-Brenda

[hughes]

WHAT. D: AXEL IS ONE LUCKY, LUCKY MAN.

[norainu]

I'm mod in two comms that allow OCs, but I voted no, and I just kind of wanted to explain why. ^^;;;

The big check/balance on a character is the setup of the universe they come from. In the two comms where I allow OCs, they're stuck within the fandom universe, or the universe that was created by the mods for the antagonists. In that case, everyone knows at least the basic framework about what sort of world we're dealing with, here.

With Landel's not being limited in setting, that opens up a whole can of OC worms that the players know nothing about. While I'm not familiar with half the fandoms represented here, I can easily go out there and look them up if I'm wondering what the heck is up with one of the characters. (And, in fact, I've already done that a couple times. Bless you, Wikipedia.) It puts everyone on equal footing.

It just seems a lot less fair with OCs.

Though I see a couple people have now said something about requiring OCs to put up the information about their world/etc. That would make me a lot more comfortable with the idea.

Either way, I'm not going to be throwing any tantrums. ;-)

[dead-draven.livejournal.com]

I'm all for that latter suggestion. I know I'd be happy to rant about my fandom if that's what people want. Seriously, add more regulations! It's not that big of a deal! XD I know I and any OC person would be willing to take the extra weight for the chance to use a character they've worked as hard on as I have on mine.

[roseisrain.livejournal.com]

I BELIEVE IN OCs. XD;

No, okay, I will expand. Like Ace said, if a person has been playing here for four months or more, they know the score. And if an OC slips into Gary/Mary Sue-dom, it'd be the same thing as having a person getting all OOC with their character.

I just don't think it's a big deal. I highly doubt many people will app for OCs anyway, and those that do already have to be even more detailed and such...I say give the OC people a chance to prove themselves. It could be fun, you never know!

[dead-draven.livejournal.com]

*hugs you* THANK YOU FOR BACKING ME UP. BACKUP IS GOOD.

[alexander.livejournal.com]

I voted no. stray_shinigami has an excellent point. My experience with OC/multifandom games is also a sense of sprawl and disconnection. Which may not be the case here, but it has happened.

On one hand I feel like the interaction at Landels needs to be varied because it seems very very "Hay, canonmates, let's hook up and never talk to people outside of our canon ever." Well, that's a hyperbole, but most people run in groups of canonmates (which is logical, yes, but it also makes all the doors feel shut). (For that maybe it'd be cool to have some sort of randomized thing to make patients interact with each other more, but I'm probably just being a hooer).

I ... don't have a problem with OCs, really, except a lot of Landels is displacement. Perhaps the OC is from a fandom base, is that going to be what you want? A FFVII OC? A ___ OC? Or is the OC completely original? If so when and where do they hail from and what does that have to do with displacement and the generalnessness of it all.

I guess it also feels ... not cheap, but the player can construct the OC for the exact play they want at Landels, and many other players/characters don't have that leisure.

[alexander.livejournal.com]

(I also voted on this journal, am Kiden and Soujirou)

[dead-draven.livejournal.com]

You bring up some good points. However, I for one have had my character for years. I'm writing a book based on him, and he means alot to me. It's part of why I'm taking all of this way more personally than I should, I'm sure. I feel like the OC defense brigade all of a sudden. XD

I just feel like people should give it a chance. If you hate the character, have them removed! It's that simple. All this does is extend the possibilities for the fandom, NOT guarantee that there will be 23982234 OCs apped. That's what bothers me here. People seem to think that every OC will be the same, and that now a thousand will be apped at once. Doesn't the fact that I'm the ONLY ONE say something? XD

[burningvigor.livejournal.com]

We actually had an idea in mind of doing a buddy system - at least for dayshift. Two characters would be encouraged to spend their shifts together and such, and we'd try to mix up fandoms that way so that so many people didn't just stick to their fandom. (Heck, I have a character from a fandom that's pretty notorious for this, Sora. Though I actually have him running around with peeps from Bleach and Drakengard at the moment.) We could also do it as an older character with younger character thing, so it'd be like the big brother/sister deal. xpotion actually suggested this and I still think it would be a nice thing to organize.

So.. yes, POINT TAKEN. :D

[grosse-sklaven.livejournal.com]

I'm kind of torn on this, really. On the one hand, I have (or did have, whatever,) two characters from extremely small fandoms, in which I was the only one to be from said thing, and both of them had interactions to go with and things to do. On the other hand, both of the characters from much larger fandoms (Xigbar and Alfons,) have interacted pretty much evenly with their own canon and with outsiders.

...and I still want to do more with Alfons and Kaylee. Ah, the geeky love~!

Sorry, was distracted. Anyway! I think my problem with the suggestion of big brother or forced interaction or whatever, is both that it's forced (which I don't like, despite being in Landels) and that it leaves your interactions to absolute randomness. If you're stuck with someone who's in another time zone? Out of luck. You're an active person and stuck with someone who posts once a day? SOL~! And maybe it's just me being a heartless conservative (ah, I happily pay the price in innocent blood to keep my gas prices at $1.99~!) but I'm very very leery of being forced to do something that I'm trying to do already, y'know? Kind of ruins the effect, and as nightshift is busy enough as is, losing daytime interaction would be kind of frustrating for me.

[angels-inflight.livejournal.com]

OH LOL I forgot to ask something. DX

When we say OC, do we mean completely original, or original characters in a fandom? Because the second option would kill the game, and I wouldn't support it then. OCs with a completely original background (devoid of biblical references preferably >_>) wouldn't be that much different from a canon character if they were played right anyway. Besides, completely original OCs (LOL redundancy) would probably end up being better characters since so much work was put into developing them in the first place.

And... just gonna play Devil's advocate, Lindsay. XD I support OCs of the completely original variety because I think any GOOD player would put enough work into them to make them interesting without the aid of powers or divine origin or any of that crap. I am only advocating this for Landels because Landels puts everyone in the same position (helpless weaklings who are monster fodder >:[[[), so the OC would not have any advantage whatsoever against fandom characters. In fact, they'd have LESS of an advantage because they don't know ANYONE, have no chance of knowing anyone, and would have to start COMPLETELY from a blank slate. It would make for an interesting RP experience because you have no friends, no powers, and depending on the background of the character, no skills. It could be an interesting RP challenge is what I'm saying.

I think most people want to stick with fandom characters only because it's easier to catch bad players, but bad players are bad players. If a player can't RP a fandom character well, they're not going to handle an OC well. if a player is an excellent RPer with fandom characters, chances are they're going to be great with an OC. It really boils down to the competency of the player.

What I'm saying is that, sadly, the reason for people wanting an OC is "because I want to." However, Landels does not need specific fandom characters to operate, it needs characters period. If Landels opened as an OC-only RP, it would still be Landels (of course, you could call into question the quality of the game, but I still assert there are good OCs and good muns behind those OCs). If Landels remained fandom only, it'd still be Landels. Why does anyone app a character? Because they want to. Do we have to give special reasons why fandom characters should be in this RP? No, because people will apply who they like (actually, the app does make you justify why your character should be accepted, but most fandom characters pass that if they're not "mascots" or little kids :|), and if they want to apply an OC, more power to them. If not, that's cool.

I just think it's a bit unfair people only want fandom characters because you can use them as a "filter" to keep the bad players out. I say, let the players who PROVED their competency in RPing apply OCs if they wish. In the end, you can still choose to just not interact with that character.

I really don't think this RP will be overflowing with OCs anyway, considering how strict the rules are regarding them already.

[dead-draven.livejournal.com]

Here here!

I think there should be another poll, differentiating between FANDOM OCs and ORIGINAL OCs. Because what I'm really talking about is ORIGINAL OCs.

[miltia.livejournal.com]

Well, you said what I wanted to before I could get to it, so...

I agree with everything you just said.

Everyone so far has been making very good points when it comes to OCs, so I'm just gonna throw in my two cents, too. XD'' I'm really biased and am just gonna admit that I'd love to see original OCs but no fandom OCs. :x But if that's what the community decides, I won't question it. Moving on, I'm talking about original OCs here...

I think that the current rules are good the way they are, but I would agree that the suggestions that people have made thus far should probably be done ANYWAY. Namely, making world information easily available to the public. I would also like to suggest making something on the application for that, at least in regards to powers. Maybe I just complicate things when I consider them, but I believe that it could possibly aid the decision of the mods to know just how, er...normal, the individual is. But that's just me. XD''

Also, let's face it...we're all writers here. Whether we're working on a project on the side that we'd love to use characters from, or strictly writing fandom characters, we're all here for a common purpose. I don't see the harm in mixing in OCs in a crossover game, especially one that can draw from every single thing known to man. Kiden-mun mentioned how a player can construct a character for the exact play they want, but what combination of character attributes and personalities hasn't been done before, with all this stuff that's out there? If they're making someone a specific way for a specific thing, chances are they have a fandom character that they could easily play for that exact play, too. Not all the time and there are always exceptions to everything, I'll admit, but still something to keep in mind.

[alexander.livejournal.com]

Your mother was a hamster. >:

... no, okay.

I have trouble reconciling OC and fandom RPs. Why? I have no idea. It shouldn't be a problem, but at the same time it always feels weird when I interact with OCs. OCs have the advantage of being created. The player knows everything and the interpretation of an OC is always the player. The ICness of an OC is always the player. Even if we're all good writers, it doesn't matter because no one else knows the OC but the player. The player is the creator. I just feel like OCs have unfair leverage in terms of playing, creation and whatnot. And when they're all OCs, that's okay because it's a level field. When they're all fandom, level again. But the mixing always bckrjbckebgkajsbness mes.

But, as I said before, I'm biased.

[a_sin_for_him]

Oh man. How long do we have to vote in this poll?

OCs are one of those issues that I generally have a knee-jerk, unwavering opinion on. Which I realize is a bit hypocritical of me, since I've played a few characters in the past that may as well have been OCs, since they were nothing more than a name in canon. But so much experience with poorly written OCs has left me... gun-shy, so to speak.

And I know that's not fair, because the rules we have are set up to ensure quality in all characters, OC or not.

My biggest issue is one that has been raised already: that there's no real way to judge ICness or adherence to canon until a full universe write-up is done and set in stone. And again I feel like a hypocrite for that, since this app cycle I've apped a character that no one but me (as far as I know) is at all familiar with. How is that any different than an OC? The fandom isn't one that has a good summary of it on-line, there are no online character bios, the only way to judge my ICness would be to go read the damn books. And as for tghe argument of original canon quality.... well, the canon I've apped from is written by Mercedes Lackey, for the love of God. Everyone here writes better than her. And probably has better world building skills.

Yeah, I'm totally just trying to work through this here. Because I am really, really torn. My first gut instinct is to say 'no', but I don't feel that's very fair. I've seen good arguments on both sides of the fence, and I honestly just can't make up my mind.

Which is unusual for me.

And I'm sorry for verbally spewing all over this post, but I wanted to put where I'm coming from out there and people are welcome to argue their sides to me to help me make up my mind.

I suck.

[beloved-lives.livejournal.com]

This is relevant to my interests.

I agree.

In short, my philosophy is -- there are plenty of fandom characters to chose from. Find one. Deal with it.

[leaute.livejournal.com]

I'm all for OCs. Does this mean I'll ever app one? Probably not. I have enough characters as is, potentially. I trained in the school of Court.

Regardless, I don't have a strong argument for it, and I'm not intending to debate about the issue with the FIST OF AN ANGRY GOD RAISED IN THE AIR. But I have a few, potential solutions.

How to judge if the OC is IC or not: Simple. Require an extremely detailed backstory and history from them, which should go without saying, but stress this. Should the applicant pass the bar, have them make either an OOC journal post with their entire application or paste it up in the character journal's profile. What this accomplishes is a reference point for mods and players to have so they can get to know the character and their world (and potentially judge if a characters actions seem inconsistent or OOC). It's no different, technically at this point, from jumping to Wikipedia and looking up information on a character and fandom that you aren't familiar with.

Or, you know, you could require that they get their Landels Wiki page up and running for reference before they're officially introduced. People forget that we have a Wiki of our own. XD

No pre-established world! This is easy enough. Make sure to add a section to the OC application that requires they give a detailed explanation about the world they come from. Unless you've already done this. I have to be honest. I haven't read a lot of the OC posts because I'm not currently interested in apping one and don't mind if they're admitted or not.

Otherwise, one argument for them that I find to be the most compelling is creativity. Personally, I see Landels as the sort of RP that could potentially cater to original characters and the like. After all, there are dozens of patients from all over as has been established. It's a big melting pot of fandoms in a place where anyone from anything can wake up and be given a "real name". Yes, this means that there are dozens of other fandoms to pick from, but it also means that it wouldn't be off the wall to drop in a character of your own creation and have them get along just as well with popular kids like Sora or the Final Fantasy crew. It's the perfect opportunity for it, and I think the fact that a much more detailed and lengthy application would be required more than makes up for the fact that the character has no canon basis. The applicant is creating a canon basis and enough information to be easily accessed so that everyone who is concerned can become familiar. The bar will be higher. Personally, I think that along with a few stipulations about making the profile available to the other players before hearing your name on the intercom, that more than makes up for the fact that they're an OC.

I understand why people would be wary, but, given the chance, I think an OC or two could fit in just fine here at Landels. I'm not going to go out on a limb and say that they'd BRING SOMETHING SPESHUL because let's face it. Characters I interact with from fandoms I'm "BA-DUR?" about already do that for me. I'm simply arguing that they'd fit in just fine, and I just don't think there's anything to lose from letting them have a go at it.

...and I ended up debating anyway. Dammit. It's the fact that I'm a survivor the Great Final Fantasy VII Love Triangle Debate of 1997. I have to be long-winded.

SHALL I CITE EXAMPLES FROM LITERATURE AND CULTURAL REFERENCES TO PROVE MY POINT?

[bigshotbarret.livejournal.com]

Dear God Spare us the references or I'll have to start calling you FF_Goddess.

[heavens-too-far.livejournal.com]

Apart from the suggestion I already made, can I suggest that OCs be allowed no supernatural abilities/improbable appendages whatsoever? I know this is a huge restriction but it'll cut down heavily on any chance of OC godmodding and/or wankery (and it's not like any powers they were allowed to have wouldn't be heavily restricted anyway, so it's honestly not that great of a loss) and encourage people more towards taking fandom characters, which I think everyone would prefer in any case. >> It'll also put much more emphasis on an OC's personality being important, as opposed to any powers they might come with.

I still don't see why we need OCs in any case. ._. There's an almost unlimited amount of fandoms and characters people can choose from, and we've got tons of characters already so it's not like we desperately need the new traffic, and it's so much more likely for OCs to be abused and/or not work out at all in games that aren't comprised entirely of OCs.

[heavens-too-far.livejournal.com]

One question, though - why are we voting on the OC issue after the decision to allow them has already been made? >_>

[burningvigor.livejournal.com]

We won't allow them anymore if the majority seems to not want them. XD