Fourth wall ahoy!

[vstheworld]

Hey all, Eryn here! Just letting everyone know that I will soon be introducing my newest character to Damned: Scott Pilgrim! 

[tumbleweed blows by]

Okay, I know he's not that well-known in this circle of the internet (he's big in the indie comics scene, I swear!). XD;; Regardless, I have an alert to post regarding him. Scott is a character whose canon is set very specifically on 2005 Earth (for the most part, certain rules about physics aside), and a majority of the media titles there are the same there as they are in the real world. On top of that, Scott is a pretty big geek, so he knows the canons of quite a few of the various fandoms that tend to pop up in panfandom games like this. You know what that means: potential canon puncturing. So here is the note I made about potential fourth wall stuff that I submitted with Scott's character application:

Scott Pilgrim is a character who could very easily break the fourth wall for certain other characters in Damned, most notably our pre-2005 video game-based characters. I am going to be very careful about canon puncturing, and won't ever use Scott's knowledge for nefarious purposes. I will always ask first when potentially canon puncturing.

At the moment, Scott is only canonically familiar with two specific fandoms currently at Landel's: Final Fantasy and X-Men. Here is a list of other fandoms currently in Landel's that he could conceivably be familiar with to varying degrees, but haven't been mentioned specifically in canon. It's definitely okay to ask for him to not have knowledge of any given title on this list for the sake of those who would rather not have any fourth wall breakage:

- Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
- Disney
- Dragonball Z (maybe the basics)
- Fatal Frame
- Grim Fandango
- Guilty Gear
- Gundam, pre-2005 (maybe a bit)
- Indiana Jones
- James Bond
- Kingdom Hearts (1, not 2)
- Marvel and DC comics (mainstream only)
- Mega Man/Rock Man
- Metal Gear/Metal Gear Solid
- Mortal Kombat
- Naruto (maybe the basics)
- Neon Genesis Evangelion (maybe a bit)
- Resident Evil
- Sailor Moon (maybe the basics)
- Sam & Max
- Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga (maaaaybe)
- Silent Hill
- Star Control (maybe only a bit, since it's a PC series mainly and Scott prefers console)
- Star Ocean: The Second Story Not totally stricken, but will be careful with this one.
- Star Trek
- Star Wars
- Transformers
- Tales of Destiny
- Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
- The Wizard of Oz
- Xena: Warrior Princess (maybe a bit)
- X/1999 (maybe a bit; Scott has had dream imagery very reminiscent of this series)

If your character is from Final Fantasy or X-Men, please comment to this post and let me know what you want in terms of puncturing. Let me know whether you prefer a little, a lot, or Scott conveniently avoiding your character until he gets it in his head that he probably shouldn't go around telling people that they're fictional.

If your character is from any of the titles mentioned on the list, please comment to this post and let me know if you want puncturing or not. If you don't mind puncturing, tell me how much you're okay with. If you do mind, then I will cross your series title off this list and mark it down as something that Scott conveniently hasn't gotten around to yet. If I get conflicting answers from different characters within the same series, we can work something more specific out.

If your character's series is not on the list (and it might not be if you're new, as I don't know how many new series came up this past round of apps), but you think it ought to be, post it here and we'll talk.



EDIT: On a side note, I have a special interaction request over on the plot post that requires a fair number of people for very short threads. Reply there if you're interested!

Comments

[revolves.livejournal.com]

Ah... with all due respect, what happened to the guideline about characters not knowing other characters' "stories" unless they're explicitly stated in canon? :( Technically the .hack characters' series as a whole predates 2005 but I'm uncomfortable with fourth-walling of this nature even if I'm sure it'd be impossible to convince any of them that no really they're characters from a game/anime about an online game....

[vstheworld]

Usually that's easy enough to deal with, but for Scott Pilgrim, it's pretty clear that he's from a canon where the standard "we eat at WcDonalds, play Super Kingio Brothers and watch The Thompsons" approach for canons not explicitly talked about does not work. Real life canons and characters are mentioned by their real names all the time in the Scott Pilgrim series, so much so that it's safe to assume that save for a few fake movies and bands that are significant to the plot, all media in the Scott Pilgrim series is identical to that of the real world. In addition to that, Scott and friends are the type to be pretty geek media savvy, so the number of titles that they could conceivably know is a lot larger than normal. I included this note about puncturing and some other details in my application, and the mods said it sounded reasonable, so I should be good, I think.

That being said, you should be safe from fourth walling. The GU games didn't come out early enough in 2005, so he wouldn't know Haseo specifically. That's why I didn't put it up on my list (I only looked up the release date for GU, oops ^^;; ). As for the franchise itself, I can say that Scott conveniently didn't get around to playing the earlier PS2 games either. He could have just been playing other games that interested him more at the time. At the very most, maybe he would know what premise of the series is, enough so that it might sound like he know about The World as Haseo and other .hack cast members know it. How's that by you?

[lastlovesong]

What is this? WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?! WHO IS THIS GUY?

I doubt that he would know anything about Saikano(mature anime feat.sex later, anime came out in japan in 2002). BUT WAIT! Saikano isn't a game soooooo I guess he doesn't know this series?

[vstheworld]

You should read up on your Canadian comic books! Scott Pilgrim is pretty dang awesome. ;D I'm sure that Chapters or Words & Pictures have the volumes if you want to buy them. Heck, I can probably lend them to you if you want.

Also, nah, he wouldn't know Saikano. You're safe. XD

[i-dont-paint.livejournal.com]

I'm fine with canon-puncturing for both Tony Stark and James Bond, since the Iron Man comic title's a decently popular mainstream one (and Tony's already had to deal with alternate universe madness anyway), and the James Bond franchise is...well, the James Bond franchise.

BUT the versions of canon both are from are post-2005, so convincing either of them he's right about them being fictional when he doesn't have any of the details right, wtf? might be tricky to the point of not being worth it (or be tricky to the point of being hilarious).

[vstheworld]

I can totally see Scott squinting really REALLY hard at James Bond for a while and going, "Nope, still doesn't look like Sean Connery. Are you serious, man?" or something to that effect. XD

And I think Iron Man is mainstream enough that he would know the character, yeah. Let me know if you ever want Scott to bug either of your guys.

[jade-pen.livejournal.com]

Aw, Adelheid from King of Fighters 2k3 isn't on the list? You shatter my hopes, m'dear, like so many pieces of glass! *laughs*

I'm fine with having him know about Roland from Digital Devil Saga, s'long as he doesn't go around telling everyone "Hey, that's a cannibalistic demon who's likely to eat you! :O" Other than that, I'm fine with it. :)

[vstheworld]

Oops, my bad. I missed that one. D:

I put Digital Devil Saga because it's from spring 2005, so it's pretty up in the air whether Scott would know it or not. Events in his canon were happening around that time, I believe, but he did have a pretty free summer up until the events of volume four, so he could have gotten around to the game by then. Agh, I kind of want to message the author and go "Uh, here's a list of stuff. Which stuff do you think Scott knows about and which doesn't he?" XD;; What do you prefer in an ideal world?

[arwingyoshi.livejournal.com]

Well, Loz is from the Final Fantasy VII compilation, and Lockdown is from Transformers: Animated

Not sure if he would watch Advent Children or not, and TFA came out in late 2007. I don't really have any problems with him knowing anything about either 'verse.

[vstheworld]

He wouldn't have seen Advent Children since it came out in 2006 in North America, but he might have heard the online buzz about its production. He probably wouldn't know the specific plot or character details, but he'd probably be excited about the release of the film (and wouldn't know yet that the release date was going to be pushed back XD). TL;DR: he won't know Loz specifically, but if they ever meet and Loz mentions stuff that's recognizable from FFVII in general, he'd definitely know about it. That okay?

Yeah, he for sure wouldn't know TFA, but I would say he definitely knows what Transformers is. He would have grown up around the time that the old cartoon and toys were popular.

[doneinthree]

OH MY GOD SCOTT PILGRIM I really need to finish that series, ffffffff.

Also, I don't mind fourth wall breakage for either of my characters, although I can't speak for anyone else. The Otacon I'm playing hails specifically from Metal Gear Solid 4, which was released last year, but he was a character in MGS1 (1998) and MGS2 (2001) too. :D

And Kirk obviously comes from this year, but I would LOVE for anybody to be like "WTF YOU ARE NOT SHATNER" at him. :[



Wait you made a reference to Words & Pictures. Are you Calgarian????????

[eryn]

OH MY GOD SOMEONE IN LJ ROLEPLAY WHO KNOWS SCOTT PILGRIM

Eeeee~!

I would love for Scott to recognize Otacon from the earlier MGS games. They can totally geek out together sometime, too. XD Also, sounds like Kirk will be a similar deal to Tony Stark and James Bond. Scott will just be like, "Bwuh, no way! You're kidding me, you look nothing like Shatner!"

Guilty as charged. XD Are you as well, or Albertan at least? We do have one other Calgarian in the game too.

[its-the-mileage.livejournal.com]

It's totally fine to puncture Indy's canon--it's already happened several times, and it's always a blast to do those threads.

As for Grim Fandango, I'm going to ask you not to for now. When Manny-mun comes back (probably later this month), we'll probably talk about it together and let you know if that changes. Until then, Meche's probably got enough trauma to deal with without being told she's fictional.

[eryn]

Figured as much for Indy. XD For Grim Fandango, no problemo! We'll avoid that for now.

[sixth-attack.livejournal.com]

Even though Battle Angel Alita isn't on the list, I thought I'd post here just in case. The series started around before 2005, but I'd really appreciate it if there was no breakage of the fourth wall around Sechs. I'm having a hard enough time Sechs is having a hard enough time in Landel's as it is xD Thanks!

In other words: NO TOUCHIE!!!! >=O

[vstheworld]

Don't worry, I don't think it's likely that Scott would know Sechs's canon anyway. XD Thanks for letting me know, though!

[phasings]

Wow. XD

In regards to Kitty, feel free to puncture away! All I ask is that it not happen right away, since I'd like her to have at least a little time to settle and get used to Landel's before something like that happens.

[vstheworld]

No problem! Scott's in full RPG mode for the first day, so it definitely wouldn't happen right away. Speaking of which, if you don't mind Kitty being talked at like an NPC for a post or two during brunch, I wouldn't mind having Scott interact with her next shift briefly. I still need more volunteers for him to approach that shift.

1/2

[stiffserpent.livejournal.com]

Canon puncturing was what derailed my fail!Snake last time, so no 'YOU'RE IN A VIDEO GAME' stuff, unless it is so ultra-casual that it is like the fourth-wall stuff in the games themselves when they talk about pressing the Action Button and auto-fire, and Snake will respond in kind. Although Snake is from the MSX games, so he doesn't know about the PlayStation. To him, he uses M to punch, M+Space to crawl, and the F keys to reach the inventory and radio.

I don't know how familiar you are with Metal Gear, but I'm going to provide a brief history of the games' release here just in case you aren't, so you're likely to know what kind of things he'll know -

Metal Gear was released for the MSX computer in Japan and Europe, in 1987. A butchered port was released for the NES in the West (which never got the MSX), which is the first taste most Western gamers got of that delicious Solid Snake. It was followed up by Metal Gear 2 in 1990, also for the MSX. However, it wasn't translated into English (it finally got a fan translation in 2004) or released in Europe, and it became kind of a 'missing chapter'. The West instead got the lulzy Snake's Revenge (NES), which was marketed as "Metal Gear 2" despite having none of the same developers.

Metal Gear Solid (PSX) was where the series really came into its own for the West, and where the gameplay (and Snake's character) really became fleshed out (Snake went from being a silent protagonist in Metal Gear and Snake's Revenge to being a character in MG2 to being a more well-rounded character in MGS). It was ubiquitous with gaming around 1999, everyone thought it was the most amazing thing ever made, it was in all the magazines. Everyone anticipated the sequel. Metal Gear Solid 2 came out in 2001 for the PS2, after very noisy (and intentionally misleading) previews, and turned out to be basically hours of trolling followed up with an incomprehensible ending (it's still my favourite one). Metal Gear Solid 3 (PS2), starring a young Big Boss and a much more straightforward story/emotional intent, followed it up (in 2004, there was a remake of MGS1, called Twin Snakes, for the GameCube). MGS4 didn't get released until 2008, but a very cryptic trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alz2PAE4q4o) for it was shown in 2005 (in winter 2005, a less cryptic trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dSyH6zZZ88) was revealed). Finally, a special edition of Metal Gear Solid 3 was released, which came along with retranslated versions of MG1 and 2 (finally in English).

I am playing Snake from Metal Gear 2.

[post was too long, leaked]

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[stiffserpent.livejournal.com]

SO WHAT THIS MEANS FOR SCOTT:

- I'm happy with some canon puncturing as long as it's not as explicit as 'hey, you're from a video game'.

- If Scott ends up talking about what happens next in the series to him, please don't mention the events of MGS3. MGS1, 2 and the pre-release information available about 4 are fair game.

- Snake has a small fanbase in his own universe which call him things like 'the Legendary Mercenary' and stuff. It would be nice if Scott came across to him like one of his in-universe fans.

- If he is like 80% of the fandom, he will not be familiar with the events of the eight-bit games. If he is familiar with them, he will probably have first played MG1 on the NES as a kid, and then played it on an MSX emulator/the MGS3 Special Edition version; and played the MG2 fan translation on an emulator/official translation on the MGS3 Special Edition disc (either way he would have played it because he liked the rest of the series, not because he sought the game out deliberately).

- It would be extra lulzy if he was familiar with Snake's Revenge, because it was both non-canon and terrible (and at the end Big Boss turns into a firebreathing zombie robot).

- Snake will not look quite like Scott would expect from the Solid end of the series. He has long dark-blond hair, is clean-shaven, and fairly young looking. Scott will probably know him best as a middle-aged man with stubble and a dark brown mullet. His voice is smoother and younger than Scott would expect, as well, but certainly recognisable. Basically, Snake isn't going to be instantly recognisable to him as Snake unless they got talking and Snake started growling at him about war and Scott already knew video game characters existed here and his brain went click.

[manwiththecoat.livejournal.com]

Puncturing Walter Sullivan's reality is fine by me.

[strayfag]

...Canada makes comic books?

Hiii this comment is irrelevant except to say that I'm already loving Scott even though I don't know who he is. :|b YES THAT'S IMPORANT ENOUGH TO COMMENT AND SPAM THIS POST ABOUT SHHH.

[vstheworld]

Yeah, sometimes we even make TV shows and movies, but don't tell anyone. Shhh. No one must ever know the secret of Corner Gas and Men With Brooms. :O

Awww thanks, hearing that from someone who plays such an awesomely funny character boosts my confidence by like a bajillion. 8D You should totally go buy the comics sometime. It's only five volumes so far, and only one more volume is left to come out yet.

[savagesolitude.livejournal.com]

Claire is from Lost, which aired in 2004 and became fairly famous from the get go. She bears little resemblance to her past self from the first two seasons, as she spent the first one being heavily pregnant and the second one in a far...'tidier' state than she is now. It seems unlikely that he would recognize her by looks alone, but if she got to talking about her backstory and the island he may possibly clue in?

Either way, I am saying yes to quiet inner acknowledgment, but I'm going to have to say no to any fourth wall bulldozing. Bitch is crazy enough, don't make it worse.

[eryn]

lol, don't worry. I don't see Scott as being familiar with Lost. He and his friends seem to barely watch anything on mainstream TV. Also, 2004 was (ironically) the "lost year" for Scott, where Envy dumped him on New Years and he spent most of the following year in a haze. Even if he had been watching Lost at the time, he would probably have forgotten all about it by now.

Thanks for taking the consideration to post to this thing, though! I didn't think people still remembered it was here. XD

[javits]

I am the latest ever to this post.

Since Doctor Who is a sci-fi show older than dirt, if you think Scott might know it / know of it, I don't mind if he recognizes the Doctor's name as maybe being connected.

(I don't know what month of 2005 Scott is from, but some new!Who info for possible face recognition if you think he would know the series: the first series of the revival aired from March to June in 2005, with the ninth Doctor's run. Tennant as the tenth Doctor would have made a brief appearance at the end of the last episode in June, plus a short skit in November, and the Christmas special in December.)

[vstheworld]

HAHAHAHAHA it makes me glee to see people remember this post, actually. XD

I imagine he would know the vague concept of Doctor Who given how long it's been around, but I don't think he's a fan. I'm betting that with all that's gone on with Ramona and the evil exes that year, he likely wouldn't be familiar with the new show at all, either. He's from September 2005, though, if you're curious!

So yeah, you probably don't have to worry at all. If they ever meet, either IRL or on the bulletin, Scott'll get a vague sense of recognition at best (more likely none at all, depending on context), and that's about it!