Activity Check Discussion Post + Contact List Update

[burningvigor.livejournal.com]

Hello, everyone!

While the game has been trucking along pretty nicely (I hope the military arc has been enjoyable for most of you!), recently there's been a lot of talk about people's waning activity. I do think that Damned is a place where you can afford to be slow at times, where you don't have to post to every shift -- this isn't meant to discourage people who aren't lightning taggers like some of us. It's already been mentioned a number of times, but there's little I can do as a mod to make people post faster, and yet there are a few changes that can be made to possibly work through this problem. I definitely want to encourage people to put their all into the game when possible and to play out some awesome plots, so here goes.

This issue was brought up over on the suggestions post, so this is mainly just meant to be a continuation of that. It was mentioned there that this is something that should be talked about by the game as a whole, and so this post is basically an open forum for people to give their thoughts and talk things out. Whether you're one of the people who's frustrated or someone who is on the slow side and looking to explain your side of things, feel free to reply and comment around!

The two solutions which have been brought up are as follows:

a) changing the requirements for the activity check
b) adding a "Posting Speed" section to the plot post form

The second option there would mainly be a way for people to know from the start what to expect from potential thread partners. It's not much of a change, but it would allow an open line of communication to be present from the start.

Changing the Activity Check requirements is something that is going to require some more thought, and so I'd like to start by polling you all on if you think it's something that needs to be revised.

[Poll #1781912]

So go ahead and fill that out, reply here with your thoughts, and we'll see what we can do about this! I'm sorry there's not more I can do, but hopefully this is a step in the right direction.

Additionally, some changes have been made to the Contact List in order to make communication easier for everyone. There's been a spot added for people to list their plurk names if they wish. It's in no way required, but if you are open to people contacting you/conversing with you through plurk then please feel free to list it. More importantly, a Preferred Method of Contact section has been added so that other players can know how you would like to be contacted. I'd like to ask for everyone to respond to the contact list with their response to that section if possible! Thanks a lot for reading all this, and have a nice night, everyone.

Comments

[lovecraftcomplex]

I said yes, but I'm on the fence. I'd mostly like to see more communication, rather than more work for the mods, and I'm not sure that a specifically stricter requirement would do anything other than the latter.

[slinks off to work on tag]

[ninelivesonce]

...replying to myself because I'm too lazy to switch journals \o/

I think one of the issues is that slow posting leads to a vicious cycle of feeling the need to have The Perfect Post after making people wait, and then it takes longer, etc. If you're spitting out posts, it's not the end of the world if you go back and cringe at one of them out of a big thread, later. I don't mean completely sacrificing quality, but I think sometimes we worry too much.

And I say all of this (fyi for anyone I haven't threaded with) as someone who is never going to be one of the fast posters. I have very limited times I can RP during, and no matter how fast I churn out tags, if I'm only on for two hours out of 24, that usually means a max of 1 tag per thread per day.

Edit: in case it wasn't clear, I don't mind slow threads at all; I've had a lot of really fun slow-but-steady and/or backthreaded threads, so it's not that at all. It's just that I don't want every thread to backthread to infinity; I try to manage the number of open threads I have so that I'm not slowing people down by drowning in tags.

[no-dont-go.livejournal.com]

Cager here. Not gonna lie, I'm one of the slower posters here at Damned, but even so I do believe there is call for some revision of the AC. I personally don't feel ACs get posted frequently enough. It feels like its been forever since we've had one, though that might also be because I might have been hiatused during the last one? (not quite sure if I'm remembering correctly)

As it is, I think having ACs that are more frequent might at least boost my own speed up a bit. I'll be more mindful of it, rather than like "Oh, I can probably wait a day or so more, it should be fine..." since this train of thought can sometimes repeat itself several days in a row. Not that I'm trying to be a lazy poster, of course. ^^; I actually try to make sure my threadmates know I'm generally not very fast, particularly during the school year when I'm both mentally exhausted from classes and physically exhausted from work.

I know I need to step up my own game too, so I'm hoping that it's been long enough in the school year that I can start to better manage my time.

[grimmhooke.livejournal.com]

This is me, too. I'm fine with the way ACs are, but I really wish they'd happen more often.

[dreadofthegrave]

i can't discuss at length because i'm still without keyboard, but i'm a pretty slow poster myself. i've been attempting to fix this, and i'll agree once every two weeks isn't enough, but i honestly find this whole notion of the game as a whole needing to pick up the pace kind of unwelcoming.

[justice]

Yeah, but to be frank, the game is a plot-heavy one that is dependent on people going forth, developing their characters within the setting, and finding things out. The spread of information and the amount that is getting done, as was brought up in one of the original points, is a valid thing. It's something that has to be kept in mind when approaching this situation. I used to have a hard time developing my characters and getting overwhelmed, so I did a few :/ drops until I permanently did.

I don't know, I doubt anyone is really critically judging anyone else for their posting speed, but there are certain expectations to be met with the game, and the current constraints make it too easy for those to barely be met, if they're met at all. If you aren't actively playing your character, why are you playing them? I am not sure how to word that less harshly, so I apologize. Every other game I've been in expects far more activity than Damned. Yes, it's a prose game with decompressed time, but ... I don't know.

I wish I could make suggestions myself on helping people post faster, because I don't have any. I do think a weight that reminds people that they actively need to be on top of things would help.

[touchedgod.livejournal.com]

I'm honestly mostly ambivalent about the idea of new AC requirements. I could take it or leave it. But I think this is probably not the solution to the problem that's being discussed. As you said, posting rate is a problem on the individual level, not the game-wide level, and I don't think there's much that the mods can do to fix it. So yeah, sure, I don't think a different AC will hurt, but I think in the long term it won't help much either.

My major concern right now is that the discussion about activity has been moving in an increasingly angry, resentful direction.

While some people have kept it to basic, reasonable concerns about posting rates, communication and the state of the game, there's also been a lot of less tolerant comments. I don't think this discussion is going to be productive if it continues along this "us vs. them" sort of path. Who's a slow poster? Who should I avoid? Who's an unreliable flake? Who should just drop already because they obviously can't handle it? It's all really pretty unpleasant to read. I don't think it's going to encourage anyone to be an active participant in Damned if they feel unwelcome, or like there are other RPers who have this much potential resentment towards them for their posting rate. People being nasty about slow posters is going to stop new apps and faster posts more than a sluggish game will.

[nest.livejournal.com]

For me, it's not really an issue of "Let's change Activity Checks so people will post more! Yeah, that'll show 'em!" Everyone has different posting speeds, styles and methods that suits them. That's totally okay!

The main issue, I think, is that the current AC requirement of 1 post every 2 weeks doesn't provide enough structure to stay reasonably involved.

Speaking as someone who turns into a slow-poster the minute I'm in backthread country, I think I'd personally like something a little more concrete to help me and the person I'm threading with stay on top of our threads, and perhaps not feel the need to take on more than we can chew. I don't mean anything outlandish or unreasonable (one DS/NS cycle is 6 weeks, after all, which should give people enough time to meet any new requirements that come up), but as things stand now I'm not sure if the current requirement is all that beneficial to the game.

I do agree it's not good for people to feel resentful. I can also see how it can come about if people feel like the only place they can express their concerns is the anon comm. Hopefully having a game-sanctioned place to have these discussions in an open, honest environment will help ease some of that tension.

There's a difference between feeling frustrated about not getting much done, and feeling nasty toward people who have a different posting speed/style. Obviously, both sides would need to be considered when discussing any potential new AC requirements. I also think encouraging players to be more communicative with each other about their limits and reasonable when booking shifts might also be helpful in the long run.

[justice]

I am very much for the idea of a change in activity. I liked the idea of two lengthy threads a month, with explanations made if they were unable to fill the quota. In other games, I've seen activity posts made, where the players are responsible by the final day of the month to get in their activity. Perhaps a post like that would help, as well with the organization of regular activity checks, with someone brought on or someone current appointed to help the mods figure out who did and didn't meet activity. Called hiatuses are obviously allowed within this.

(I believe Gargleblasted does this, if anyone wants to go check it out.)

I know I am speaking from a biased point of view, but one post every two weeks, regardless of the circumstances, seems like very little threading to get done. Even six posts a month seems like very little given that this is a character driven game where character motivations need to be applied to how they are actively handling the setting. It's not like it's one character posting and threading in first person with five people like comm-based games (comm being communicator); it's one person in-depth discussing something with another character.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, because I've been guilty of negligent posting in my previous time in the game, but I just don't know how the current restrictions promote a driven atmosphere.

[stellarregions]

The problem with this is... I don't think you can apply other games' AC standards to Damned because Damned isn't like other games. If someone drops your thread (or is very slow) you can't just pick up a thread somewhere else to boost your own activity. That leads to more exceptions being made for people than would be needed in other game, and more work for the mods. And I don't think our solution should really end in 'more work for mods' because let's face it, our mods already work really hard.

[psyches]

I've said yes, but with the concession that if we can adjust our posting speed, are willing to understand our own limitations with threading, and keep an active and open avenue for communication, we may be able to get by without an AC change. I will say that the biggest roadblock I've noticed for this issue has more to do with letting threadmates know when you can't post/will be slow when they happen so perhaps a posting speed notice could be more beneficial.

[chaneystarr.livejournal.com]

I second this completely. I'm not sure this should be considered another thing the mods should be moderating, but something us as the players should be aware of and attentive to as players in this game.

[contentincloset.livejournal.com]

I'm definitely on the slower side of posters now and was very close to calling a Hiatus before this went up. I hate calling hiatuses because it makes me feel like I'm letting my threadmates down, and I don't want to do that. Still, without the time to post, I basically end up dragging my feet anyway and they have to suffer regardless!

It's a lose/lose, you know?

But anyway, here's an essay of reasons why I end up slow - none of which involve a lacking desire to post and play the game:

-Real life has to come first. That's always a given. My Octobers get difficult since it's where I start a second job at a Haunted House. I don't know how other players' falls look, but mine have their heavy times.
-Notifications. I don't use them - I have no desire to get accustomed to something that apparently doesn't work all the time. So instead I keep tabs open. I might close a tab on accident and a thread gets dropped without me remembering. Happened to a backthread I was supposed to have posted to some weeks ago but forgot.
-You covered it with the "Preferred Method of Contact", but yeah, like notifs, I don't look through PMs sent to character journals. I have too many characters to log in/out and check them all - send me an e-mail! Also, I'm never doing PLURKsoundslikebarf.
-Nightshift if difficult to post to for three weeks(+) if you cannot get your character a date! This NS is the first that I've gotten a character out on his own, but that was only because I swore I'd get him out after hiatusing him the night before. Getting him moving on his own was a very difficult task for the lacking motivation of a thread-mate - and it's the reason why my second character without a partner to thread with has 3 posts this NS, her posts coming roughly every week or two.
-Probably just me, but I've been put off a bit with the rules regarding posting free/closed during the DS. Even when I have a character that is free, I don't like posting that they are [free] because it's like a "come and get me" mark, rather than a chance for someone to thread because they actually want to. Searching through posts just to find someone free is restricting, as are posts listed as closed/for whomever. They just make me sigh because maybe I've been waiting for that character to be free and I didn't catch the Plot Post soon enough. Also, restricting.
-Also for DS, I want to say that the length of the shifts deters some as well, or at least me. Most are 3 days and if you don't post immediately to the first day the shift goes up, by the next day you've pretty much missed half of the shift. When that happens to me, all I think it "there's no point" and end up missing the shift altogether.

I need to go to bed now, but if I think of more, I'll get it up when I've got the time.

[seiberwing.livejournal.com]

-Nightshift if difficult to post to for three weeks(+) if you cannot get your character a date!

This. So much this. During dayshift you can pick up someone who's 'free', but during nightshift everyone's got their own business to handle.

Suggestions!

[nest.livejournal.com]

First off, I personally feel the AC requirements should change. For me, 1 post every 2 weeks as a bare minimum doesn't provide very much structure and allows for people who are barely active to coast by during ACs. There have been times where I've probably held onto characters longer than I should have because I was able to pass the AC. Compared to other games, Damned's AC is very loose, and I don't think that's very beneficial for the game anymore.

However, to say that the AC will fix whatever issues some players seem to be having is probably over-simplistic. Having players specify preferred method of contact, allowing people in the plot post to specify their own posting comfort zones/speeds, and encouraging players not to book up every single shift in a DS for all their characters in the plot post, will also likely help things run more smoothly when combined with a more defined AC requirement.

Ultimately, though, I do believe changing AC requirements won't hurt. That's why I voted yes. At the very least, we could implement a new system and see how it works for us.

After reading concerns and ideas from different people, I've put together a draft of a potential change. I'd like to see people's feedback for it. Unfortunately, I have to go to bed soon, but I'll try to get it out sometime tomorrow morning.

ETA: It's down here (http://damned-lounge.livejournal.com/2581638.html?thread=40020870#t40020870) now! Please check it out and add your own thoughts and comments.

[witchoftruth]

What I would like, if we make changes to the AC, is something to promote consistent activity. Reading various comments here and on plurk, there are people who feel like they're being singled out because of their tagging speed and that is unfair to them, especially if they do tag consistently, they just do it every other day or every other two days. There's a difference also between someone who can tag a lot on certain days or the weekend, and then the rest of the week they might be slow due to real life, and someone who tags like once every two weeks. Since this game is so backthread friendly to begin with, simply posting at a slower speed isn't really enough to slow most people down.

The problem is when threads are getting outright dropped, or threadmates disappear in the middle of Nightshift and don't respond to communication, or something like that. Honestly, posting once every two weeks is kind of bad for this game, mostly because two weeks is literally more then half of a Nightshift. It's especially bad when people end up missing events because their threadmate dropped/disappeared and they're stuck with nothing to do and having to handwave shit starting next DS. I know there are some players who might be upset that we need to have this discussion, but you do have to take into consideration the people who are just stuck because their threadmate bails on them. It doesn't matter what your posting speed is if you don't post to begin with.

Some suggestions I heard flying around was stuff like altering the AC so... to give an example, like say it was a monthly AC but you had to provide a post per week, so about 4 posts a month, taking into consideration hiatus/slowatus/weird weeks, etc. Of course, I'm well aware this would require more work, so I'm not really expecting this sort of change either. Now that I think about it, I think what I am really thinking of is maybe some sort of penalty for excessive thread dropping. I'm not sure how one would look out for this, but I'll think more about it.

I can only say this from my view, and my view isn't at all accurate with what's been going on with the rest of the game, but I've had no trouble keeping up threads with people and I'm pretty slow posting myself (hell I have a tag that's like two days old now waiting for me? yikes), but I don't mind if I get a threadmate who can only post every other day or mostly on the weekend (hell, I like it LOL), just as long as we're actually posting.

[tightsofmight]

While most of the points I wanted to bring up have already been stated in far better clarification than I could have conveyed them, I think it's also worth merit of saying that when it comes to stuff like notifs being borked or people who (rightfully so) choose to avoid using an otherwise common form of communication, that there has to be some accountability held on the individual's part as well. Telling your threadmates to email you or use AIM or something instead of whatever they consider the norm is, and then waiting for them to contact you instead of taking initiative to ask about posts or plotting or potential CR gets to be a lonely method of doing things. I know it's a two way street, but somebody has to make the first move. Sometimes it has to be you.

I think LJ's track record has become notorious enough in and of itself that it's worth checking your threads at the actual webpage rather than simply refreshing your inbox to check that it's your turn, rather than assuming it isn't and getting a nudge days later from your threadmates. Or if you're not on plurk or don't use chat or pms or whatever, waiting on people to come to you doesn't tend to amount to much communication. Or vice versa. Just in general: if the person you're threading with doesn't use the same mode of web communication as you, don't be afraid to get the conversation started and ping them yourself, and check these modes for your own notifs as frequently as you are able. I personally don't like not being able to talk to whoever I'm threading with. It makes me nervous and I tend to assume I'm doing something wrong when I get silence on all channels, or that they decided to drop the thread and thought it was a mutual unspoken agreement between us when I'm actually sitting there with a question mark over my head (which I think I've done myself a few times, not even gonna lie. Sorry to the people who've had to deal with that on my end.) Not to mention it's worrying because with the internet, you can never really know why it is they're not messaging you back. Could be they're severely depressed, or swamped with school work or any number of equally valid reasons. You don't always need the specifics, but just knowing that you're unable to respond or tag at the moment for whatever disclosed or undisclosed reasons would really ease the mind.

I know that a lot of people do make an effort to put up hiatus notices or get in touch with their threadmates, but I do think we have room for a little more initiative. I'm not going to sit here and pretend I'm all saint-like with my activity and whatnot, because that is ever so far from the truth. I try, but I do fail sometimes. But I do attempt to make an effort to get in touch with as many people as my characters interact with as possible, and sometimes I wish people would make that effort back. We don't have to be ZOMG bestest buddies EVER and tell each other deep dark secrets - I just want to be able to ask if certain actions or thread directions are okay without feeling like I'm poking somebody in their sleep.

[corvus-veritas.livejournal.com]

This. Being somebody who doesn't use Plurk or any form of instant messenger, I have to wonder if I'm missing out on a lot of player-player discussion and etc., especially since I've been told that sometimes people mention slowatuses/hiatuses only on Plurk and not on the Lounge. ...Now I'm a little concerned that this goes further and may make me seem unapproachable/awkwardly distant from the game. o_o;;; I hope that's not the case!

That said, if I feel like there's something I really don't understand or want to clarify things between threadmates, I tend to give it a bit of time to make sure I'm not rushing things and then send an LJ PM at the threadmates if I'm still not sure. Sometimes I feel like I'm being bothersome by doing that, but at the same time I'd rather avoid a situation where something wasn't communicated right and then things got awkward. Y'know? So I see where you're coming from, most definitely, and in fact I worry over the communication issue more than the slowness of the game.

AND I really like the new 'preferred method of contact' thing just for that reason. It never really occurred to me that some people don't check their LJ PMs for...some dumb reason, so knowing that now will be really helpful I think! :3

[grimmhooke.livejournal.com]

Agreeing with some of what's been said already, mostly. I voted no for now, as I don't see how changing the AC requirements will help boost player activity yet. I'd rather wait to see some of the ideas before I'm sold, but as it is, I'm also kind of getting that us vs. them vibe, especially from some of those comments that have come up in places like the Anoncomm.

There is a difference among slow-but-consistent-posting, ludicrously slow posting, and thread-dropping, and some of the slower taggers who work diligently on their tags, but only get them out every day or other day or so, feel a bit alienated at some of the comments that the game needs to pick up the pace. I do agree that it's tough to compare Damned's AC to other games, as Damned is pretty different from everything else on the market in terms of not only gameplay, but playerbase.

One thing to remember is that the average player in the game has changed from where it was a year or so ago: we lost some of our faster taggers (not necessarily due to the game being slow- most left because of other time constraints) this past year, a lot of the long-time players have entered the workforce and college, etc. and that plays into time. The pace of the game overall has slowed down to accommodate that, though I can see where it gets to a point of being too slow. Still, some of the comments have been less than productive.

Players need to be honest with not only themselves in regard to how much they can handle (by keeping only as many characters as they can manage, not scheduling every shift, etc.), but also with other players. If you need to skip two shifts in a row for some reason, it's okay to call a brief hiatus in case you get caught in an AC. If you're going to be slow, tell your partner. If your partner is slow, don't hesitate to ask them what's up. Communication is one of those things I will always push for.

Anyway, no suggestions from me yet, but I'm going to think on it and come back to this. Hopefully, we can find a solution that's best for everyone. One thing I really would like to see is a higher frequency of ACs. I don't think putting them on a schedule would help too much, as then people could just scramble to get a tag out right before it, but I would like them on a more regular basis than they are now.

[age-of-kings.livejournal.com]

some of the slower taggers who work diligently on their tags, but only get them out every day or other day or so, feel a bit alienated at some of the comments that the game needs to pick up the pace.

Oh man, I really hope not...I mean, I've been pretty quiet for this whole thing, because I honestly do not know what I think should be the direction to go in, but I know when I'm talking about 'slow posters', I mean ones who only post once a week or actually just once in the two-week requirement period. And I thought that was what everyone meant...people who consistently only post once every one or two weeks.

Because no one should feel like they're 'slow' over one post a day or two.

[ofthemotions]

Hi, Damned. I'm pretty clear on my opinion in all of this--I've been vocal on the suggestions post and for reference I do agree with the majority said on the anon thread, as well as holding concerns on other parts of the Damned anon thread.

tl;dr about it. My main issue is the severe lack of consideration I have seen for the past few DSs for myself and others. Obviously it's frustrating when you plan for something and it doesn't happen, but that could be overlooked if there was basically common decency about communication.

I'm not rawr rawr rawr slow posting, I'm raging over people not tagging for days to weeks to never without even letting their threadmates know. I would like to get things done in Damned--either CR based or plot based, and honestly, I would rather have people tell me if they can't tag to me so I can tag someone else and not waste my time.

RL trumps all. That's common sense. But as said within the suggestions post I believe, online is the same as offline. There's politeness and decency that should followed in both cases. If you make plans with people, you follow through--and if you can't, or you're going to be late/delayed, you tell the person. Period. For some reason barely any post to the lounge anymore, where it used to be that people posted for the tiniest of delays. I remember a bunch of, "I can't post for tonight! Sorry guys!"

In the long run, it is just that. People have things that come up, off days, etc. Which is perfectly fine. What is not fine is thinking that your threadmates will always be fine with waiting and not having any idea of what's going on with you. It has nothing to do with pointing fingers, questions of anxiety, or unrealistic expectations. It has to do with people forgetting that there are other people on the other side of the screen.

Post hiatuses. Post slow posting. PM your threadmates. Email them. IM them. Plurk them. Comment to the thread with an ooc note that you'll be delayed. Do any of those things but do them, and frequently. It's infinitely better to do it more than needed than to do it not at all. We used to do this well, and somewhere along the way, we just stopped. And it does need to be fixed.

A thousand and one times your threadmate would prefer a heads up on what's going on than a mystery delay where we have no idea what is happening.

-
And as for the AC thing, I am in favor of changing it because too many times, for canonmates more than anything, I've seen people remain in the game for over six months with two threads to their name, and it does mess up your canonmates/threadmates. If people can stay in the game like that, there is a problem. And really a question of why people are in the game in the first place if it's not really to play.

[no-dont-go.livejournal.com]

I agree that people need to utilize the lounge more often than they have in the past. I'm no exception. I rely much too much on plurk to let people know that I'm having troubling braining or that I'm busy because of work or school projects or whatever, and that's really not fair to the people who don't have plurk that I may be threading with. That said, I did already post in the lounge before back when school first started that I would be on perpetual slow-posting for the semester, but that was quite a while ago and could probably use repeating--definitely every time I post in the plot post at least so people don't make plans with me without knowing what they're getting into.

Other people have also mentioned limiting how many shifts they throw their characters out into the during DS, and I can see how that could help as well with keeping people from needing to backtag too much, and hopefully making it easier for them to manage their time. I also plan on working with this. While I love all my CR, sometimes just scaling back could really help with time issues and keep things from really getting bogged down, which I think other people also have issues with. Once you're stuck with a lot of backthreads it can be intimidating to jump back into tagging after a short leave, too, and that only causes more problems. At least in my experience.

[eryn]

Oh god, so many opinions. So hard to form own opinion on complex issue. @_@ I have my own thoughts on all this, but for now, I think the easiest thing I can add is a summary of things that everyone seems to agree on so far. Hopefully this will be helpful for anyone who is looking at all the comments here and elsewhere and trying to get a sense of what all is emerging out of these discussions:

• "Slow posting" is anything less than a post every two days or so (opinions vary, but this appears to be the average view).
  
  
• It's okay to be a slow poster. So long as one is consistent and keeps up on communicating with other players, all is well.
  
  
• Hiatus/slow posting notices are your friend.
  
  
• Finding out your threadmates' preferred mode of contact and making use of it — do it!
  
  
• Don't bite off more than you can chew. Pace yourself. Don't commit to more than you can handle. And if you do, don't be afraid to admit it and re-organize things with your threadmates. No one will think less of you, especially not if you're up front about it. Again, communication — it's good for you! :Db
  
  
• Opinions vary vastly on the current state of the AC and whether it should be changed or not. The most consistently agreed-upon things are 1) that one post every two weeks is extremely lenient, and 2) if any changes are to happen to the AC, upping their frequency is one of the more feasible changes.
  
  
• Don't feel you have to make long posts all the time if it takes too much out of you. TL;DR =/= always better. See example of awesome short post here.
  
  
• More free posts like there were in the old days might be nice.

I'm sure I missed some things or maybe misread others, so feel free to add more emerging conclusions and/or corrections under this comment!

[ofthemotions]

Ohh, thanks for this, Eryn!

[zalia.livejournal.com]

Unpopular opinion time.

I think people are looking at entirely the wrong cause here. I don't think changing activity check is going to do much except get rid of players who might be having a bad week or two. And sometimes, much as it might seem weird, RP really is the last thing on your mind, even to post hiatus or slow posting or whatever.

I think the expectations built around Damned tagging is a major part of the problem. Damned has a reputation as a 'literate' game, which is great, but a lot of people seem to take that to mean 'long-winded'. Breaking the comment limit is a badge of honour. I know I've been criticised before for not putting enough detail into posts and not making them long enough, even when there wasn't a whole lot to write about. It's just became the sort of culture of Damned (look at how much pride there was when they had to put an upper length limit on app history sections) and I think it's a pretty big cause of the slow posting. People don't want to admit they can't keep coming up with huge tags, so threads get dropped, because it's really awkward to go to contact someone and say 'look, I can't brain three paragraphs in response to your tag'. Both people end up feeling insulted.

Someone (can't remember who, sorry!) pointed out that the average tag length a couple of years ago when the game was moving more quickly, was about a paragraph. Now it's three good sized paragraphs. And that's, to be honest, really intimidating, especially when it's quite possibly that the 3 paragraphs only contain a sentence of dialogue. I know it freezes me up. In a person's head or not, the expectation that you have to write loads for a tag is pretty pervasive and it kind of cripples at least my RP drive. I find it at the moment, much easier to tag at other games where I know I can just reply with a paragraph even in prose threads, and still do the same job, than I can in Damned, where I feel I'll be looked down upon for not writing a couple of hundred words. If I feel the expectation is of a huge comment, I'm much more likely to go... oh, I'll reply later when I don't have other things on my mind, when I have more time, when I'm not about to go make dinner, whatever. And hey, it keeps going like this and the tags just stagnate until each time I look at them makes me feel guilty so it just perpetuates the problem.

I mean, I find it difficult to post first to shifts because I'm worried about this, and there's only so much you can write for someone going to breakfast or lunch or whatever.

[promisedawhale.livejournal.com]

I'll definitely agree to this - I'm finding myself now, given my shorter time online, starting a post before heading to work and finishing it when I return. Because I can't leave a post that short, you know? And not all of us can be as awesome as Hannah!

The first shift thing gets me too. I spend longer than I want/need to on the first hallways during NS, especially when it's pretty much just "character enters hallway, character keeps moving, character leaves hallway". That gets to be a real deterrent for posting at all, so I usually end up waiting.

[unpriest]

I'm a little hesitant to mingle in this discussion, but here are my two cents anyway.

First of all, let me stress that I do not mind slow posting by itself. I don't mind it if you post once a day or once every few days, that's fine with me and I'm guilty of it myself. What is incredibly frustrating, however...well, let's throw in an example. Take the NS with the drug trials for instance (just an easy example here, I don't mean anyone or anything in particular with this). Say you want your character to participate, but half-way your threadmate disappears without warning, and by the end of NS your character is still in Main Hall 1-West, missing out on the opportunity to play with the effects aforementioned drug trials. I think everyone can imagine that this is really frustrating for the person who's stuck here. During DS it's just a few days, but during NS you'll end up sitting on your hands for weeks and you won't be able to play out your plans. Once again, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone or anything, but try to imagine this can be incredibly frustrating for the people who want to get things done.

Of course, there could be various circumstances related to this person disappearing. I'll admit that I'm no saint myself when it comes to posting; recently I crapped out for a week myself. What makes things less annoying though, is taking two minutes to let your threadmate know that you're not able to post for whatever reason. There's nothing embarrassing to admitting you're a little busy or that you don't have the energy to come up with anything coherent as long as you take the time to communicate; it only takes two minutes to write up a post in the lounge. It's a polite thing to do, really.

As people have said earlier, communication needs to be improved but I don't think the game itself could be changed to accommodate that.

Though I agree that one post every two weeks is extremely lenient, how many people in this game actually post only once every two weeks under normal circumstances (without hiatus or thread dropping or just being stuck for an NS/not having any plans for the NS)? I think everyone already knows that posting only once every two weeks is way too slow for this game. And to be honest? I'm wondering if changing the activity requirement will be all that helpful. If it's to lenient, nothing will change. But, if you tighten it too much so that things will change, people will feel too pressured which will lead to a large amount of drops. Keep in mind that a lot of people in this game have busy RLs such as college/uni/work and mainly do this for fun, RP shouldn't become a chore. If there is too much pressure to post, it might have the wrong effect on the slow posters who are otherwise consistent. We may have a lot of slow posters, but they are consistent.

What may work is having the AC more frequent to cut off the squatters, but I don't think that in itself will make people post faster. There are usually RL circumstances related to the slow posting, and adjusting requirements or having more ACs won't change these circumstances at all.

I do like the idea of adding a line in the plot post about posting speed. That way, people can take it into account as they plan things. However, this requires people to be realistic about what they can or can't handle. If you make plans for an NS, it's reasonable to expect that - under normal circumstances - you'd want to go through with them.

Eh, hope this made sense as I wrote this down rather quickly. :| Anyway, just my two cents.

1/2

[nest.livejournal.com]

Okay, hi everyone! Again, LOL. Please note that I've bolded some points for easier readability since I realize this is kind of long. But before I launch into what I've got written, I want to emphasize that I'm A-Okay with people having different posting speeds/styles/comfort zones.

My desire to change the AC requirements does not stem from wanting to make people with different posting speeds feel bad or unwelcome. On the contrary, I think it's good to have a relatively broad range of players. Furthermore, I don't think a new Activity Check would necessarily disrupt people's usual posting schedules. Rather, I'd like to see regularly scheduled activity checks (preferably once every full DS/NS cycle -- in other words, roughly once every 6 weeks), and requirements that are a little more structured in order to hopefully help encourage people to finish backthreads.

Regularly-scheduled activity checks would make it less likely for squatters to fall through cracks, and would give a more concrete goal than what's currently provided. I understand that would require more work on the mods' part, to which I suggest considering the possibility of allowing 1-2 NPC mod teams to alternate in assisting Court and Erin in going through activity stuff however they saw fit/necessary.

Obviously, this would depend on the Head Mods' feelings on this idea, as well as the NPC Mods' willingness to volunteer some of their time in this endeavor. What are you guys' thoughts on this particular point?

If not every full DS cycle, maybe every 2 DSes or so could work (like we were trying to do before), but I think that still lets a squatter potentially hang around for the better part of a year, which we want to avoid.

SUGGESTIONS Part 2

[nest.livejournal.com]

Regardless, each AC could ask players to provide two things. This would be in order to get a more thorough idea of whether people are truly active or not.

First, a link to their most recent post. If it does not fall within one week prior to the Activity Check, it would count as an activity strike unless a hiatus is involved (just as we do now, except with a two-week marker instead).

Second, proof that a player has posted fairly consistently during the past DS/NS cycle. To accommodate different styles of posting and unusual circumstances, however, I propose giving players two ways to do this. These two options could be:

a) Provide links to 2 threads from the past DS/NS cycle where you have posted with your character at least 6 times each. (Preferably 1 DS thread and 1 NS thread, though 2 DS threads could certainly work. Since NS is technically one shift, however, that would only count as one altogether.)

or

b) Provide links to 12 posts you have made with your character over the course of the last DS/NS cycle.

Ideally, everyone would be able to simply do Option 1. However, in cases where a player has had their threads repeatedly dropped by other players (or other extenuating circumstances) and cannot provide 2 threads with 6 rounds, they could still use posts from dropped threads and NS posts (including moving posts) to demonstrate their recent activity.

If it became apparent that someone who consistently uses Option 2 over the series of multiple ACs are the ones dropping the threads, though, the mods could raise concerns (though not issue an actual strike as long as they are still meeting activity requirements) and maybe try to understand why the player is having difficulties keeping up with threads. This could lead to better communication and hopefully players taking better care not to bite off more than they can chew in establishing CR with other people who want to play with them.

Hiatus guidelines could be set into place to make sure people who need to take breaks aren't overwhelmed by trying to meet activity requirements. Obviously, people who are on hiatus during an Activity Check would technically be exempt from participating (this rule exists now as well). On the other hand, someone who takes a a total of 2 weeks' hiatus during the DS/NS cycle would only need to provide links to 8 posts, while someone who takes a total of 3 weeks off would just need to provide 6 posts, and so on. This keeps the activity load proportional to the time a player has been officially active in the game, and is also fair to people who've been active the whole DS/NS cycle.

By having regularly-scheduled Activity Checks, I believe players would benefit by trying to stay relatively active through the DS/NS cycle. Asking everyone to provide 1) a link to their most recent thread, and 2) (in some form) twelve posts they've made through the DS/NS cycle would also give everyone a concrete min. goal to meet that's more specific than our current requirement. Furthermore, it would encourage people to stay relatively involved instead of trying to meet last-minute requirements by posting up a post right before Activity Check. Giving two options for the second part of the AC would hopefully accommodate unusual situations, but also ultimately help give some perspective to those who might be having problems keeping up with previously-made plans.

Twelve posts in 6 weeks would roughly total to about 2 posts per week. Given the allotted 6-week time frame (more when there's extensions), I think that would work as a minimum activity requirement.

As I've said before, however, I believe good communication is vital in any group activity. That's why I support the new addition to the Contact List, as well as encouraging people to be more open about their own posting speeds/style/comfort zone, and to not book up all their shifts at once.

Anyway, if you have any comments or input about this idea (or other ideas), please feel free to share. Some people are uneasy about committing to change the AC when very few ideas of how to accomplish this have been put forth, so I think it's important to start some constructive discussions about the logistics behind it.

Thanks!

[burningvigor.livejournal.com]

After reading through what's been brought up here so far, I'd like to make a few points from a mod standpoint if you guys will bear with me!

This post was in no way meant to single anyone out. I responded to the fact that it was being discussed in another venue (the suggestions post) and that it was mentioned that it should be brought to the Lounge so that it could be talked over as a community. My top post was simply meant to introduce the issue as I understood it and I don't think that anyone is trying to make people feel unwelcome. (rpanoncomm might be another issue. I haven't read that thread and at this point I think discussion should be taken care of here, not there.) This was an issue that I wanted to get a varying amount of opinions on so that I could decide how to approach it as a mod.

Personally, I want to make it clear that there isn't anything wrong with slow posting so long as it's consistent. I am well aware of the fact that there are people with busy schedules who only have small periods in which to write up their tags. I don't see posting one tag a day per character as slow; I would call that medium speed for where the game is now. I also don't think that the game needs to be sped back up. Yes, Damned used to be faster. That's changed, and it doesn't need to change back.

What I would consider slow is when someone is taking two days or more to tag back each time. Once again, that's if that's a consistent thing. Obviously there are situations where someone's delayed due to outside circumstances, but if someone's taking two or more days to respond each time I would qualify that as slow.

Now, even if you do fall into that category, that doesn't mean that you should feel like you can't be a part of the game. My belief is that anyone who wants to contribute to this game and be a part of it should be allowed to play. However, what does need to be kept in mind is that you need to be open with communicating your comfort levels when it comes to posting speed. If the other player knows what to expect from the start, then that should cut down on a lot of frustration.

One thing that has really stood out to me during this entire discussion is that we need to communicate more. This isn't asking a lot, I think. It's a matter of telling your thread partner that you aren't going to be able to get a tag in until tomorrow or asking to reschedule because, even if you'd planned a thread, something's come up and you're going to be busy. That will smooth a lot of this over and make people feel like they haven't been forgotten. I know how much it sucks to be waiting for someone to show up and then have the thread abandoned without hearing a thing. I realize that it might be up to the person waiting to then seek the other player out, but people get anxious about these things without needing to be. Make yourself at least somewhat accessible! Be open and honest about what's going on. I'm not saying that you need to tell your thread partner your life story -- all it takes is one personal message sent off to explain what's going on.

[burningvigor.livejournal.com]

Another point: I never meant the activity check to be some sort of cure. As I stated from the start, there's no way to make people post faster. Some people can't; some people are already posting at the speed that is manageable for them. I don't think this discussion was ever about slow yet consistent posters and I don't want any of you to feel like this is targeted at you. I have threaded with a number of you myself and consistency is really the key thing for me. So while I do think that the activity check might need a change (or more frequency) due to being very lenient as it is, I don't see it as a solution so to speak. For me, the communication issue is far more important.

I think people need to be more willing to hiatus when they get busy. I think that people should be careful about how many shifts they schedule. With the plot post, it's easy to say yes to everyone who asks for a thread because we all want to thread with a lot of people (I know this, believe me) and then suddenly you're knee-deep in backthreads. I am planning to add some more edits to the plot post, such as adding a calendar and a notes section. The calendar would break down dayshift, at least, in order to make it clear what shift will fall on which days (roughly, since extensions happen). This should help people to think about their own schedules and consider when they'll be busy and when they won't. The notes section would be a place where you can list how many shifts you feel comfortable scheduling per character and for anything else pertinent ("I'm going to be going on a trip," "I have finals and might be slow," "I'm not really feeling X character and only want to schedule a thread or two for them," and so forth). Also, I'll probably define the posting speeds so that you know what to define yourself as. Probably something like fast, medium, slow, and variable -- variable meaning that it can change from day to day or you're fast on certain days of the week, etc.

Personally, for me it's thread dropping that is more of a problem than slowness. I can deal with a backthread here and there, but having a shift wasted because someone never posted back is discouraging. I do think that if you get the feeling that you can't make a thread, you should definitely tell the other person so they can make other plans. Once again, I can't make you do this, but I can encourage it as a mod speaking to my players.

As for the concerns about feeling a need to make long posts: I do think this is something that people get nervous about without needing to. Long posts are not always necessary. I'm saying this as a mod. I know I tend to make them myself at times, but that's because I'm replying to what I think needs to be addressed in response to the post. Everyone has different styles and levels of comfort with that and I don't think that being scared that your posts are too short should hold you back. I will say that there is a limit (if your replies are always just a single action and a sentence of dialogue without any introspection, that seems like you're not trying to me), but short posts are not the enemy! That's for sure. Here (http://damned.livejournal.com/1153450.html?thread=79462314#t79462314) is a thread I did with Rynn that has some tags that are on the shorter side, if you want a concrete endorsement.

The one thing I'm not sure how to handle is nightshifts. This is where a lot of frustration can happen, since if you have a specific goal and your thread partner is waiting three, four, five, etc. days between tags or if they completely drop it, that can be hard. I'm not sure how to stop this from happening or at least make it less likely to happen, though, so if you have any thoughts on that please let me know.

In any case, I think the fact that this has been brought up to the comm as a whole will hopefully make people more aware of it and spur them to contact their thread partners when needed. And that should go a long way.

[scientist-skye.livejournal.com]

Speaking for myself, this (http://damned-lounge.livejournal.com/2581638.html?thread=40017030#t40017030) is definitely what leads to my slow tagging. When I only have a little time to tag or am feeling tired and just not with-it, my attention immediately goes to my other game. The culture of posting in Damned, with the implicit expectation that players should post paragraphs of quality introspection as well as offering a hook for a tagger, can be downright intimidating. What happens with me is a vicious cycle of putting it off, feeling guilty for holding things up, and continued putting it off out of guilt and 'oh god I made my partner wait this has to be an incredibly awesome tag to make up for it'. It becomes a source of stress, so I end up putting my free time in elsewhere (and suspect it might be the case with other people). I'm heartened to see people say that tags don't have to be perfect or terribly long all the time; I only hope that actually turns out to be true.

I agree that communication is another issue, but I think it's a bit more complex than 'please just let someone know if you can't post'. When the conversation began on anoncomm, my first reaction (on Plurk) was, "Every time this conversation comes up, I honestly consider dropping." (The Plurk is here (http://www.plurk.com/p/e40pj7), for the record, but it's friends-locked because my Plurk is private.) I realize conversations on anoncomm are to be taken with a grain of salt, but other people have pointed out (either here or on Plurk) that previous conversations about activity on anoncomm have been outright aggressive. Even now, the conversation on anoncomm singles out specific patterns of behavior that, in turn, cause certain players to feel implicated and therefore targeted by the frustration.

It makes me hesitant to tag someone I don't know well, because I'm afraid that I may have already been written off as untaggable or will prove myself to be over the course of the thread. And it makes me hesitant to contact people when my only reason for not having a post up is 'sorry, feeling too brain dead to write a quality post'; it feels like an excuse, not a real reason to hold up a thread. Since anons have no face, it starts turning into 'it could be anyone/everyone who gets irritated by my behavior, I don't want to disappoint further by being lame.' And that perpetuates the cycle, at least for me.

All of this said, I'm glad that we're actually having the conversation in the game, even if it's an uncomfortable one. The multiple times this issue has come up on anoncomm have only made the issue worse by creating a (perceived) environment where it's terrifying to communicate with a player you don't already know for fear of inciting frustration or anger. I just wanted to add my two cents and point out that communication is a two-way street. Yes, people need to communicate to their threadmates. But we also have to make it clear that communication is welcomed and won't be received with a negatively-charged attitude or response.

[zanuff]

Yeah, I was unsure where this attitude that people are being aggressive about this was coming from, but I'm seeing the anoncomm posts and (admittedly second/thirdhand) accounts from plurk that are pointing out where it's coming from. Hence why I thought that discussion on a moderated forum where that kind of thing wouldn't be tolerated was the best way to go about it.

I'm especially glad to see all the people who are fine with slow tagging/communication, cuz yeah, it's fostering an environment where communication is possible to begin with. It's kind of encouraging for me as well because I personally feel like a douche if I have to message someone about a thread asking, "Hey, what's going on?", especially if I don't know what came up for them. LOL

[vinesofregret]

I am just going to stick this here and hope that some of the people who are lurking but (unsure) on commenting see it - I know it's a little daunting, but if suggestions here are making the slower people in the game uncomfortable, please, speak up. I feel like most of the debate is going on among us faster people, and we can kind of guess at 'will this/won't this work for everyone' but having people say 'with the pace I play at, this suggestion makes me uncomfortable/wouldn't work for me' is important. I know I've seen some people on plurk be like 'I feel like I can't say anything because I'm slower' but you totally can, and I think it'll help us all if you do ♥

[ofthemotions]

This. Despite the fact that I may be unpopular right now, seriously this. You need all sides to be heard to come to a consensus, and it doesn't matter the playing speed because we're all part of the game. So please speak up!

As well I'll reiterate what myself and a bunch of others have said, that this is not aimed at anyone in any way--in fact, if you think it is aimed at you, you're probably not even close. =P And we really do want communication from everybody on this.

[ryuuzaki]

I've stayed out of this up until now because I've been processing a lot of thoughts on the issue, and because I don't want to get into a back-and-forth on it... I kind of just want to leave this here.

One thing that is important to me: I hope that Damned remains a disability-friendly game. The slow pace, lax AC, and low number of simultaneous threads to juggle per character have made it uniquely friendly among LJ games to people who have disabilities, especially those that might actually and unpredictably interfere with someone's functional ability to post. I would not like to see AC requirement changes that take Damned from being a game where you can work around things like that with the understanding of your threadmates to being a game that requires so much activity that it's impossible for people with those issues to stick around. (I feel like this would be a factor for me sometimes, but honestly probably not enough that I would consistently fail AC or anything; I'm just thinking from the perspective of these problems.)

It's one thing if a game has always been that way--but it's another when it's a paradigm shift that makes a game unwelcoming or unworkable for a chunk of its playerbase. Also, some elements of this discussion have gone in the direction of redefining "doing the best you can," which makes me kind of uncomfortable in and of itself: a lot of people have been told for a long time, regardless of the nature of their issue (family, work, health, etc), that they best they can do is good enough, and that RL>RP always, and now they're being told (not necessarily by the same people) that that wasn't actually true after all. NGL, that is disheartening, especially when it seems to me like two-way communication is still the biggest problem with lagged or dropped threads.

That said, it's important to acknowledge that even when everyone else is being as empathetic as they can, sometimes the best someone can do still isn't good enough, and that is what it is: When does an individual player, regardless of their personal hardships, need to call it a day? When you redefine that line in a way that can make gameplay more demanding for some people, you risk alienating the players who are used to the line's former location, even if they can meet the new demands. It's something I would like to see being handled with extreme sensitivity.

Some other stuff!:

- If you are waiting on the other player in a lagged thread, approach them. It's possible to say, "Hey, were we going to continue with this?" or "Can we make a plan for the rest of the thread?" without being a jerk. Most slower players everywhere are sheepish about their lag, and would appreciate it if they weren't always expected to take the initiative.. I'm not denying that they should also be communicating. However, it's better to reach out to them than to fester about them not reaching out to you.

- It helps to get into a new shift as soon as possible. I've been working to improve my own activity lately, and this has been the single most vital factor. A lot of us have gotten in the habit of considering a shift during DS to be a window in which to start the inevitable backthread, rather than treating a shift as the period of time in which we're going to try to accomplish the majority of the thread. With NS, the delay seems to be about breathing room after a hectic DS.

- Following on that, if you find yourself oblivious to the schedule and events, pinning the game's main community for notifs--or just pinning the "intercom" and "radio" tags on the main comm and then the "mod" tag on the lounge--can help a lot. I understand that there may be a general impression that LJ notifs are completely unreliable, but that's not usually the case for most people who use them; they're at least worth a try.

- Don't worry about your post length, just do what's appropriate for your character and give the other player something to work with. I write long posts because I have to analyze a lot of info for my character to be IC. I promise, as a tl;dr poster, that I love getting a short post back; it makes my life easier.

[ryuuzaki]

Sorry -- also, I realize that what I wrote above could be taken as "No AC changes should be made at all" (and I'm replying because this post was too long to edit and incorporate that). I don't feel that way, but I drafted a long reply to Jansen's specific proposal, and I felt that issue was better covered there, if I can get my reply down to a manageable length.

[unit67.livejournal.com]

I'm just seconding a ton of people with this, but yeah, I selected 'no' because I think that the AC issue isn't really with the posting requirements, but how frequently the AC is done. Sure, a person ought to post more than once every two weeks, but I think the activity check also works as a wake up call for many players. If I see that I haven't posted for a character in two weeks and I don't have any excuse, it makes me sit down and think about whether I still enjoy playing them or am just character squatting.

Somewhat related question: when a player drops and rejoins, are their previous activity strikes wiped?

1/2 whoops, tl;dr 2-cents essay contribution.... (unsure)

[train-tracer.livejournal.com]

Important: I want to emphasize that my point in this comment is not to offend. If I do offend, I sincerely apologize. It is not my intention to offend. It is also not my intention to accuse or point out specific people or make personal attacks. If it sounds like I am, I'm sorry, that's not how I intended it to sound. I do often seem to fail at conveying my points accurately in words, so I apologize for that.

I've also been one of the people who has stayed out of this discussion for a while, though I've read some of the discussion threads here, as well as some of the plurks related to this, and the anoncomm thread that first brought this up. I also made a plurk with disabled responses a day or two ago about this, though I regret that I cannot link it, since my plurk is private, but I have nothing against friending anyone here! If you would like to read this plurk, here is a link (http://www.plurk.com/p/e4ymyx). You may friend me if you wish to read it! The main points I put in my plurk will be put here as well. Also, many of my opinions are similar to what E wrote in her contribution to this discussion.

So first, I want to state that I am a slow tagger. Not as much today (though still slow and inconsistent), but definitely, definitely yes when I first started. Granted, I did have a lot of RL circumstances that really didn't help the matter, but I've been here since November of last year, with several hiatuses in between. But the fact remains that I kept a lot of people waiting for tags and went long periods of time with no contact because I was scared of having to apologize and not being forgiven (or at least, given a chance to be forgiven) and not having enough self-confidence to even guarantee that trying to make up for my failures would work at all. My mental state wasn't at its best then, clearly. But yes, I do tend to write tags very slowly and make my threadmates wait anywhere between a day and several days for them. Back when I started, it could go something like weeks. And I am not proud of it.

Moving on. To be perfectly honest, I don't think we should look at this issue as something to take sides on. Reading some of the discussion about this, (not just here, but on plurk and anoncomm as well) it seems this issue drags up a lot of hurt feelings. Anger, it depends, since tone is hard to decipher from text on a webpage and people's interpretations of text can differ, but there are certainly people who have felt as if they were being accused of not being good enough or have felt uncomfortable because they recognize that the sorts of 'slow-taggers' that are being described here seem to be describing them. I think this is being referred to as the 'us vs. them' mindset that has been cropping up.

Before I address this, I just want to point out that, even if this feeling wasn't intended and the emotions that some words conveyed weren't what those words were meant to convey, we are all different people who are affected by different things. You can say afterward that you were not targeting specific people and that you did not mean to make people feel uncomfortable, but reactions are things that sometimes can't be helped. And I think it's important to acknowledge the fact that different things upset different people. So please be careful to consider the many standpoints in a situation like this and think about what you saying before you say them. Anything could offend anyone, but if we were all a little more mindful about how words could be interpreted, the chances of a bad misunderstanding would be lessened. It's okay to not understand how someone could be offended by something, but if they say they are offended in some way, then the fact is that feelings were hurt. Offense is a very instinctive reaction, something that seems to come to you immediately, and while reason can quell the instinctive nature of feelings, often, feelings are much faster than reason. Just like sometimes, one can't help but immediately get angry, sometimes one can't help but get offended over something that might not seem very reasonably offensive. It's just like fears; sometimes, you can't explain it logically, you just fear it and that's what it is.

2/2 + MESSAGE TO ALL FELLOW SLOW TAGGERS.

[train-tracer.livejournal.com]

With that in mind, I mostly am concerned about the fact that people are getting this feeling of 'sides' in this issue as a whole and that this will create a rift in the game: one where everyone feels unsure about talking to other people and interacting. Because, let's face it, everyone in this situation feels frustrated or upset or uncomfortable in some kind of way. It will be hard to find a solution that will work for everyone. I'm not even sure a solution exists that will make everyone happy. But I think something to definitely remember is that we are all here because we love the game and want to continue playing in it, and are having this discussion because we are trying to find a way to optimize the game experience for as many people as possible. Yes, there will be consequences and people who aren't quite satisfied. But I think that, beyond that, it's also very, very important to remember that we are a community that strives based around a collective love of RP in this particular setting. We need one another to have this community in the first place. If we're making people feel alienated or unwelcome, I think that in the end, we'd all be losing. If something like this starts breaking people up, there won't be a community to enjoy, much less try to improve.

I'm not against any of the suggestions that were stated here, though I do think some would probably work better than others, but I think that the most important bit is about encouragement and working together. Slow-posting is a problem and not contacting a threadmate about anything that is making you lag immensely isn't considerate, but at the same time, I think it bears mentioning or reminding that slow-posting can definitely be a psychological problem or, as E said, a disability. I myself have this problem. A lot of the time, the reason I lag a lot and am afraid to contact people about my lag is because of several psychological reasons: depression/moodswings, issues with time management, perfectionism, lack of self-confidence, etc. But at the same time, I'm still here because I love playing with you all and I'm trying my best to meet expectations and enjoy myself at the same time. Slow-posting isn't always an indication of laziness or an intentional show of inconsideration. It can be just as painful and frustrating to the slow-poster as it is to their threadmates. It's a very individual problem and it's also something that requires a lot of patience, open-mindedness, and support.

So I think that, instead of focusing so much on finding ways to change things to make AC requirements tighter or things like that, I would like to suggest that we, as a player-group, focus more on improving communication and helping those who are more unsure about tagging and RP to become less insecure about the way they play or the speed at which they post. Slow-posting can be improved, but it requires the individual person's will and the support of others. The ratio of these two isn't always the same for every person, either, but I think that if everyone worked to support one another rather than finding ways to change mod regulations that might alienate some people, things would work out better.

Finally, I did end up voting 'yes' on the poll, not because I think that it will help against slow-posting, but because it will make it less frustrating for people with inactive canonmates. And that's pretty much my only reason for voting yes. For me personally, I also think that perhaps a small change in the AC requirements (such as a post within the past week, as opposed to the past two weeks) would help me remember to post more often and would perhaps ultimately help bring up my tag consistency. For others though, I can't say the same. But I do see an AC change as something that would help prevent character squatting and the like.

AND FINALLY-FINALLY: FELLOW SLOW TAGGERS, YOU ARE ALL BROS AND WE STILL LOVE YOU. NO REALLY. WE DO. HECK, IF ANYTHING, I LOVE YOU ALL. ♥~ LET'S LEARN TO BE AWESOME TOGETHER, ALRIGHT?! WE LOVE THIS GAME AND ARE STILL IN THIS GAME FOR A REASON. FIGHT AND WINNNNNNN! WE CAN DO ITTTTT~~~! ♥♥♥ I think we should all talk to one another and work together to win. c: Keep up the awesome, Damnedites!

[psyches]

I've been reviewing a good number of responses here, and I'm becoming rather disturbed by the number of people defining themselves or others as "slow posters" when by Court's definition, they are not. I would highly encourage everyone in this discussion to consider sticking to Court's definition; otherwise, we may incite either needless confusion or defensiveness as we discuss this subject.

To make it simpler, I've broken it down:

- Taking 1 or 2 days to post isn't considered slow posting by Court's definition. In fact, the average pace is actually 1 or 2 days a post.

- The definition takes into account for slowness during more RL intensive periods.

- Consistently taking three or more days to post once on a current thread is considered slow posting.

- If anyone is taking 1 or 2 days to post for a thread with the occasional slowness, you don't fit the criteria of a slow poster. In actuality, they would be at average pace.

From what I understand, the problem that's being pointed out with activity is that there is a high percentage of players who are consistently taking 3+ days to post once to a thread. As far as I've read, no one is expecting people to post 3 times a day, every day, the second after their last reply. However, on the other side of the coin, a lot of people are currently thinking they are slow when they do not fit the set definition of slow posting in Damned.

Let me know if I'm inaccurate in this.

[ofthemotions]

Thank you for doing this; I think a lot of people were getting confused over the exact definition.

[princeofthemoon.livejournal.com]

I'm kind of late to the party here, but I think that overall the current AC requirements are nice, but can lead to abuse of the system. So maybe, rather than hugely changing anything right now, you could just start implementing a system wherein if people spend a certain number of AC checks in a row - three, maybe - just slinking by, barely meeting the minimum requirement, they will be put on warning, and if they don't shape up run the risk of being automatically dropped on grounds of activity. After all, activity checks are meant to keep players active, and if they're not really being active then they should be dropped. One post every two weeks (or less, as might happen what with the random nature of AC) for an extended period of time is not staying active, so kicking characters who drag on for months only meeting the very bare minimum seems reasonable.